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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 30-03-2011, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hogboy View Post
Don't think it's a lethal combo, just a bit pointless as there is no proven Super, not sure where the lethal gene thing came from ?
Exactly that reason.

Due to the hundreds of thousands of spider breedings it is statisically near impossible that IF the homozygous spider could exist then it wouldn't yet actually exist.

By now we would have seen either a phenotypically different 'super spider' or proven a homozygote animal out (confirming its status as a dominant mutation).

The fact that this has not happened means that either we just haven't 'hit the odds yet' despite it being the most commonly bred morph next to pastel (and the super pastel has been around about three/four years less than the pastel!),

or (and this is by far the most likely option) the homozygote animal is a lethal combination and never develops.

An hypothesis could be that the neuro issue in the heterozygote reaches lethal levels in the homozygote that stops development of the zygote.

Circumstantial support of this theory is the ivory carpet ('super' version of the jaguar carpet). The jags have a more subtle version of the spider wobble and the super form can make it as far as the hatchling stage. The super ivory however dies straight out of the egg. The summise being that a more subtle neuro leads to a 'less lethal' homozygote, but lethal none-the-less.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 13-05-2011, 10:39 AM
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Default spider gene

spider gene is a dominant gene so cant have a super form and like someone said previouly would be a waste of a breeding as you would only come out with spiders.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 13-05-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Browny92 View Post
spider gene is a dominant gene so cant have a super form and like someone said previouly would be a waste of a breeding as you would only come out with spiders.
You do know that a dominant trait can still be homozygous OR heterozygous, right?

NERD will undoubtedly have done a lot of testing with their first male when they got him up to breeding size to find out if there was a visually distinctive homozygous form of the gene... so why hasn't one been proven homozygous yet?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 13-05-2011, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Browny92 View Post
spider gene is a dominant gene so cant have a super form and like someone said previouly would be a waste of a breeding as you would only come out with spiders.
Have you read the rest of the thread at all?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 22-05-2011, 10:38 PM
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Cool hey !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu.G View Post
Spider Royal.

The spider gene is a co dominant mutation. It has been said that all royals carrying the spider gene will suffer from neurological issues described as "head wobble". This can very from being hardly noticeable to servere corkscrewing and starglazing. How much this effects the snakes quality of life is open to dispute, spiders are also said to be strong feeders and breeders.
I believe the super form of the spider gene to be lethal,no living Superspider has been produced.
hey sorry just to fix it the spider is a dominant gene and no superform exists hence i is a dominant.

Just to let you guys know
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 22-05-2011, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by toolrthebest View Post
hey sorry just to fix it the spider is a dominant gene and no superform exists hence i is a dominant.

Just to let you guys know
If there's no proven live homozygous animals, it definitely isn't confirmed as a true dominant (since the definition of that is that a heterozygous animal looks like a homozygous one). Unless someone steps up and says "yes, I have a confirmed homozygous animal, proven through breeding trials" ... it's still looking like a codominant where the homozygous form is "didn't make it to hatching."
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 22-05-2011, 11:21 PM
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I know its already been said, but heres my 'simplified' take on spider...

codominant:

het = wobbly alive snake
homo = dead snake
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 22-05-2011, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by toolrthebest View Post
hey sorry just to fix it the spider is a dominant gene and no superform exists hence i is a dominant.

Just to let you guys know
Hey, that's ok. Only, when 'fixing' something, it is usually sensible to read all of the previous posts.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bothrops View Post

Due to the hundreds of thousands of spider breedings it is statisically near impossible that IF the homozygous spider could exist then it wouldn't yet actually exist.

By now we would have seen either a phenotypically different 'super spider' or proven a homozygote animal out (confirming its status as a dominant mutation).

The fact that this has not happened means that either we just haven't 'hit the odds yet' despite it being the most commonly bred morph next to pastel (and the super pastel has been around about three/four years less than the pastel!),

or (and this is by far the most likely option) the homozygote animal is a lethal combination and never develops. [making the mutation codominant]

An hypothesis could be that the neuro issue in the heterozygote reaches lethal levels in the homozygote that stops development of the zygote.

Circumstantial support of this theory is the ivory carpet ('super' version of the jaguar carpet). The jags have a more subtle version of the spider wobble and the super form can make it as far as the hatchling stage. The super ivory however dies straight out of the egg. The summise being that a more subtle neuro leads to a 'less lethal' homozygote, but lethal none-the-less.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saedcantas View Post
It's a well known fact that you can't reason (or debate) with morons.
VEGETARIAN - An old American Indian word for 'Bad Hunter'
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 28-05-2011, 02:41 PM
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You will probably tell from my next question that i am new to this!!
But am i right in saying that if you breed Bumble Bee x Bumble Bee, the 'Super Spider' will die in the egg? Or will it just not be produced as there is no such thing proven?
I am just trying to understand the genetics thing so please be gentle!!
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 28-05-2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ba1l3y76 View Post
You will probably tell from my next question that i am new to this!!
But am i right in saying that if you breed Bumble Bee x Bumble Bee, the 'Super Spider' will die in the egg? Or will it just not be produced as there is no such thing proven?
I am just trying to understand the genetics thing so please be gentle!!
The problem here is that nobody fully understands the genetics. I certainly do not, and from the posts in this thread, the previous posters do not understand it better than I do. And as far as I know, nobody has tried to work out the answer.

Breeding a spider (or spider combination) to another spider (or spider combination) should produce a snake with a pair of spider mutant genes (AKA super spider) sooner or later. But nobody has reported such a snake. So why has a super spider not been reported?

The two most likely reasons are
1. The super spider dies in the egg.
2. The super spider looks like a spider but has not been reported for various reasons like no interest, no internet access, the snake was never bred, etc.

Solving the problem would require mating two spiders to make possible super spiders and then mating at least 20 of them to normals. If all of the possible super spiders prove to be spiders, then most likely the super spiders die in the egg. But this would require a lot of time and effort.
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