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New Veiled enclosure help/advice

911 views 8 replies 3 participants last post by  Setth 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi guys. I have almost 8month's old Veiled male and he is now in reptibreeze 46x46x92cm or 18x18x36inch. I am planning a new, permanent home for him and i wanna make it right on first attempt. (I have little problem's from start with wrong type of glass vivarium, problems with lights etc. ).
I read through this forum, and other cham/reptile forums daily, but there is still some question's, and i cant't find clear answer on them/ or info is old, so i am not sure if it's still viable.

Full glass vivarium is out of question. Place for tera/viv would be in our living room, in corner on my computer desk or on another cabinet (aprox. 80-100Cm from ground).
I live in central Europe in Slovakia btw., in winter, it can be cold here, but i have 22-25 grade of celcius in my apartment, 50-55% humidity whole time

Here are some questions, what come on my mind right now:

1. HUMIDITY - some people say, that veiled don't need high humidity. That 50-55% is enough and you only need to spray every other day. Many breeders/keepers here in Europe keep veiled in full glass or wood/osb and do this. In US, many people kept them in screen enclosure's and mist 3-5x per day (if i do this, even in my screen enclosure, humidy would be 70-80% and water everywhere). How mutch % veileds need? Is something like exoterra dripper plant good for them? ( i know that waterfall is no no, i have zoomed dripper too)
2. SIZE OF ENCLOSURE - it is common knowledge, that adult veiled can be kept in 60x60x120cm (24x24x48). Would be ok to use this size of enclosure and make it bioactive? I mean, if there is 20-30cm substrate, is this size still good enough or i need to look for bigger viv? (150cm)
3. LIGHTS - many people using only UVB and heat. I was told, that you need day light bulb too with 6500K. My question is. If i have 120cm tall viv with screen mesh, it is ok to use only 1 T5 HO bulb with UVB + basking light, or do i need another T5 HO daylight bulb, even if for example arcadia uvb have 6500K and CRI 95+ ? Is UVB bad for plants or why i read everywhere, that i need 6500K bulb for plants? Many many people that i know have plants in apartment's, without special light, and they are good. Don't get me wrong, i don't saying all who say "bulb for plants" are wrong or something (actually i use them right now :) ), i just want to understand, why i need another controller + bulb for more than 50euro only because of plant's, if they doing good somewhere near my TV for example, where is no additional light.

That's all for now, thanks all who read it :)
 
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#2 ·
Hey Setth, I can't speak for your first two points particularly, although on the subject of the height of the inclosure, I doubt you'd need a full 30cm of substrate etc, I'd have thought you'd have great results with about half of that, maybe make the drainage layer a little smaller if you have a way to easily remove excess water that might collect, I use a 100ml syringe with a thin tube attached which I can feed into the corner to suck up water if it gets too near the top of the drainage layer.

When it comes to lights, I added an arcadia jungle dawn led light to my panther's set up, it comes on mid morning and goes off in the evening so gives much more light as a mid day effect. I thought his tank was fairly bright before using just the heat bulb and uv tube, but have realised how gloomy it would have been if it was the only light all day. after a couple of days of adjusting to it he seems so much more active in during the day, the plants are doing better (which I believe helps the environment he's in as a whole to be more pleasant) and the colours he's displaying are much more vibrant. having used a light meter a friend has for photography it showed just how low the light level was without the leds, not even as much light as a grey october afternoon, so I definitely think more light is better all around.

After reading the arcadia wild recreation book I certainly agree with John that trying to match conditions where possible to the animal's wild environment is the best idea, they're coming from a bright environment (even among tree foliage) so having a decent amount of light helps with the animal's mental wellbeing as well as it's physical.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for reply RobD, i'm planing to use my big ficus tree there, but i think he can survive with 20cm substrate aswell :2thumb:.

If more light, or that another daylight bulb is for mental/physical wellbeing of chameleon, then i'll add it for sure. Thanks for clarify this for me. I didn't understand, why you need for example almost 100e jungle dawn for plants, which cost me abot 10-15e :). Now i understand : victory:

Btw, any chance you have here pic's of your enclosure? :blush:
 
#4 ·
Yeah once a plant's established it's surprising how little depth they need if they've got space to spread roots along, 20cm would probably be plenty.

With regards to the Jungle dawn lights, they really do give out a great amount of light, even the 13w one seems to do a great job in most enclosures, one of the selling points they talk about is the benefit to plants, but that's only a part of it, the overall improvements that they make are worth it in my eyes, even with things like helping the plants grow which in turn improves humidity, reduces co2 etc.

I'll have to upload some pictures soon, He'll be going into a bigger viv next year as he's only 5/6 months old at the moment, but that's probably going to be essentially the same just scaled up.
 
#5 ·
I need to decide, if i'm going with reptibreeze XL or maybe exoterra (but it's smaller, dunno if it's ok for adult male veiled). After that i need to consider light's for him in some "affordable" way, i was thinking 2xT5 HO (UVB+6500k) and basking. For this i dont need anything, just put the lights on mesh. If i wanted to use jungle dawn, it is possible to have it just on mesh? For UVB i need then 1xT5 HO or would be UV flood lamp from arcadia be better choice? Is jungle dawn better than 6500K T5 HO bulb? (too many choices :mf_dribble: )
 
#6 ·
can I help you at all?

To answer your question about the difference between flouro plant lamps and jungledawn,

Plants need water, food, airflow, light and energy from light in order to grow.

You can have lots of visible light, but for that light to be energy projection poor.

We call the energy behind light 'PAR' or 'Photosynthetic Active Radiation'. The higher the PAR the more energy is available for photosynthesis.

Jungle Dawn is unique as it produces full-spectrum visible light with a VERY high level of PAR. It does this by NOT using separate red and blue diodes which are by definition PAR poor, but with VERY expensive 6.5k kelvin LEDs.

As such high volumes of PAR rich visible light are projected down onto the plants. They then have the energy that they need to grow and show good colour.

UVB, being a set of wavelengths that carry huge energy within the photon beams will, if unbalanced or with under supplied PAR cause damage to a plant. In short, the energy behind UVB does not provide for photosynthesis and causes a burn, the plant cannot repair the damage as the PAR is reduced. It simply cannot heal itself

Linear Flouro or linear LED lamps are PAR poor by definition. In comparison, you will have far better plant growth with Jungle Dawn for much less running costs than with a bank of T5 plant tubes.

The standard UVB system for a large mesh cage for a sun-dwelling cham such as yours is the D3+ 12% UVB 55w UVFLOOD. This will provide high levels of UVB rich light down and over a wide but targeted basking area roughly 10" below the mesh for your species, so decorate well.

Couple that with a good heat system and stat and your off and running. The new 50w Deep Heat Projector is the most advanced tech, you may like to read up on the benefits of I-R-A/I-R-B mix in readiness.

Find out more about replicating sunlight here for free www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-55-mbd-uvb-with-john-courteney-smith/

happy to help if you have any questions,

John
 
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#7 · (Edited)
Thanks John for educational reply, i appreciate it.

I saw that deap heat projector on your another reply here on forums, but i was not sure if i can use it for veiled, would not it be better to use something which produce light too?

"Linear Flouro or linear LED lamps are PAR poor by definition. In comparison, you will have far better plant growth with Jungle Dawn for much less running costs than with a bank of T5 plant tubes." I really dont care mutch about plants there, but is jugle dawn better than T5 HO daylight for chameleon?
if it is like RobD said, and it's for wellbeing of chameleon, i am for it. But with that "plant's need it"... i can buy new plant's every year and it would be mutch cheaper than keeping there 1 super thrilling tree with 100e light.

That "standard" uvb setup is really pricey, flood 55w cost like 85euro (but anyway i can't find that 55w version, only 24w - and i don't like to buy 55w from amazon etc. ). Jungle dawn 22w is for 110 euro. It's almost 200euro only for light's. What's the "better" uvb setup then? (i know that i get what i have payed for, but it's extreme).


Dont get me wrong please, i'm sure you know what are you talking about and if i have unlimited budget, i'll definitely buy 55w flood + jungle dawn + deep heat (which have really good price btw, so maybe i buy it : victory: ) + just any size of enclosure he want. But right now, with buying new bigger cage and some furniture for it, i'll need some cheaper solution for light's. : victory:

So my question is - can he be ok with 1xT5 HO arcadia UVB + 1xT5 HO sylvania 6500k for example with basking light (deep heat projector) and live good life or i need to wait a little longer to get him more money for better light's? :mf_dribble:

EDIT - btw i am really happy for your help guys, hope you dont get feeling that i'll try to outsmart you or something, i know you have more experience than me. I have wife and little child and i just cant spend half of monthly payout for enclosure + light's
 
#8 ·
It would provide light for sure, you just won't get the growth levels of standard bio-active live planted systems.

You can only work within your budget of course, that is entirely sensible.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for understanding : victory:. At least there is still place for upgrade, maybe later.

For 60x60x120cm/24x24x48" is 22w jungle dawn enough? Can i leave it on mesh or do i need special fixture? I know it's for E27 and i can rotate it, but without fixture, that LED's would sit right on the mesh or?
What's lifetime of this bulbs 12h cycle?

I read 1 post from you, where did you advise 24w for that height. 55w it's basically like 2xT5 HO bulb right? Can't find dimensions for 55w anywhere :blush:. But if i'm right, 54w T5HO is approx. 115cm/2 so that flood bulb would be approx. 58-60cm long right?

Prefer to know this things now so i do not bother you later when there is time for upgrade :mf_dribble::2thumb:
 
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