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-   -   Brexit, tax, Hamm, Houten, and Doncaster (https://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/hobby-issues-information/1172161-brexit-tax-hamm-houten-doncaster.html)

Central Scotland Reptiles 29-03-2017 10:17 AM

So you are advocating people breaking the law? The importation of animals without the correct documentation (although in the grand scheme of things may not seem important) amounts to smuggling and has ABSOLUTELY no place in our hobby.

The fact the UK has a dedicated Wildlife Crime Team tells me that they are infact interested. Certainly my experience of UK law enforcement agencies is that they are actually pretty effective and switched on given the limited resources they are working with.

Can you imagine the field day the Animal Rights Groups would have if people were knowingly smuggling animals into the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry python (Post 12772210)
I would be surprised if there is any change to the current little or nil interest shown by UK borderforce toward the passage of reptiles from over the channel in the UK. UK borderfoce total commitment of resources to drugs, beer, baccy, illegal immigrants is unlikely to be compromised to spend time on peoples purchases of pet reptiles.


colinm 29-03-2017 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcap (Post 12770937)
No doubt there are some high volume US breeders bringing over some high value morphs, but this is their business not a hobby ... are they doing a two-way shipment though? At least one of them has a UK or EU importer, so maybe they ship to their premises instead of direct to the show. Maybe they can factor in the extra time to ship their animals to the EU importer, then get themselves over to Europe for the show, then leave and arrange the shipment of any un-sold animals. Or perhaps the un-sold animals remain in the EU with the importer to be sold at the next show or elsewhere.

Their reptiles would also be coming in/out of Europe by courier.

Compare this to someone at hobby scale driving their own snakes in their own car in/out of Europe the evening before the show and then returning to the UK the night of the show. This person wouldn't have the luxury of time to ship their reptiles in advance. Nor would they have the time to apply for and receive the import/export paperwork to return that next day with an unknown number of snakes.

If you are buying in the EU then I assume that you will have to apply for the necessary paperwork beforehand (and pay). I don't see that as a particular problem. People will have to pre order their paperwork and animals. This will lead to less impulse buys.

colinm 29-03-2017 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry python (Post 12772210)
I would be surprised if there is any change to the current little or nil interest shown by UK borderforce toward the passage of reptiles from over the channel in the UK. UK borderfoce total commitment of resources to drugs, beer, baccy, illegal immigrants is unlikely to be compromised to spend time on peoples purchases of pet reptiles.

Surely there will. That's the whole argument for pulling out of the EU. There will have to be some paperwork needed. I have always had more problems with the French customs than the British and I am sure their checks will be more stringent once we are out of the EU.

ian14 29-03-2017 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry python (Post 12772210)
I would be surprised if there is any change to the current little or nil interest shown by UK borderforce toward the passage of reptiles from over the channel in the UK. UK borderfoce total commitment of resources to drugs, beer, baccy, illegal immigrants is unlikely to be compromised to spend time on peoples purchases of pet reptiles.

You are very wrong.
Once we leave the EU, we will no longer be part of a borderless interior. So for the purpose of CITES species, which includes every species of python and boa, the only way to import will be to comply with CITES.That includes export and import permits. This is already enforced rigorously with Ukbf having a dedicated CITES team. The apparent lack of interest in animals being brought to the UK from Europe is simply because if they are already in the EU, they can be moved country to country without any further regulation.
If anything, I am anticipating an increase in enforcement of this, especially when Hamm and Houten are on, certainly for a few years.

harry python 30-03-2017 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Central Scotland Reptiles (Post 12772258)
So you are advocating people breaking the law? The importation of animals without the correct documentation (although in the grand scheme of things may not seem important) amounts to smuggling and has ABSOLUTELY no place in our hobby.

The fact the UK has a dedicated Wildlife Crime Team tells me that they are infact interested. Certainly my experience of UK law enforcement agencies is that they are actually pretty effective and switched on given the limited resources they are working with.

Can you imagine the field day the Animal Rights Groups would have if people were knowingly smuggling animals into the UK?

"Keep calm and carry on" Nothing has actually changed at present. As to smuggling only bit off that I see is when herp trippers to Euro shows stop off at Adinkerke the UK's baccy capital and fill their bags with baccy to sell on once they get back home.

Can you imagine the field day the Animal Rights Groups would have if people were knowingly smuggling baccy into the Uk under cover of their animal pickups.

wagg 30-03-2017 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry python (Post 12774018)
"Keep calm and carry on" Nothing has actually changed at present. As to smuggling only bit off that I see is when herp trippers to Euro shows stop off at Adinkerke the UK's baccy capital and fill their bags with baccy to sell on once they get back home.

Can you imagine the field day the Animal Rights Groups would have if people were knowingly smuggling baccy into the Uk under cover of their animal pickups.


You know what i second this motion.:notworthy: really fed up of people scare mongoring and panicking. Everyone needs to chill out. And befor someone says anything i didnt vote.

ian14 30-03-2017 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry python (Post 12774018)
"Keep calm and carry on" Nothing has actually changed at present. As to smuggling only bit off that I see is when herp trippers to Euro shows stop off at Adinkerke the UK's baccy capital and fill their bags with baccy to sell on once they get back home.

Can you imagine the field day the Animal Rights Groups would have if people were knowingly smuggling baccy into the Uk under cover of their animal pickups.

No, nothing has changed yet, you are right.
But as of March 29 2019, it will.
So those visiting Hamm, Houten, or any other EU show need to start looking at the process of getting CITES permits, and the costs involved.

dcap 30-03-2017 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagg (Post 12774177)
You know what i second this motion.:notworthy: really fed up of people scare mongoring and panicking. Everyone needs to chill out. And befor someone says anything i didnt vote.

I'm not seeing anyone panic in this thread! Despite it being frequented by a troll (not you sir/madam).

Just curious to see what will happen to the in/out of reptiles for Hamm/Houten shows. This will also impact Doncaster. I've never been to any of these shows and have no real intention (might do a Donny one day, might do a Hamm/Houten before we finally get around to brexiting, but probably not). Since a lot of UK reptiles shop will source their snakes/lizards/other from Hamm/Houten it will also impact what is available to new reptile owners.

And the good news is that the flippers will hopefully stop ... those are the people who go to Hamm/Houten to pick up snakes and then sell them on privately in the UK - pretending that they are their own hatchlings. They will hopefully be discouraged financially by the future regime changes.

Not sure how relevant your decision not to vote is, but thanks for sharing.

colinm 30-03-2017 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian14 (Post 12774338)
No, nothing has changed yet, you are right.
But as of March 29 2019, it will.
So those visiting Hamm, Houten, or any other EU show need to start looking at the process of getting CITES permits, and the costs involved.

Yes both British and EU. I wonder what paperwork we will need for non CITES species ?

dcap 30-03-2017 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colinm (Post 12774425)
Yes both British and EU. I wonder what paperwork we will need for non CITES species ?

Perhaps it'll be paperwork with the queen's (or king's) head on it in the form of tax.


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