Brexit, tax, Hamm, Houten, and Doncaster - Reptile Forums

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2017, 06:37 PM
huh
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Default Brexit, tax, Hamm, Houten, and Doncaster

I've had a search on 'brexit' as a topic but can't see this discussed yet. While clearly this exit process seems to be taking some time (getting started). And assuming we lose the right to free trade without taxation at the border ...

Does anyone have any thoughts on the movement of snakes (lizards) in/out of the UK to/from Hamm/Houten after the UK leaves Europe? Same for EU breeders bringing snakes over to Doncaster.

Example - if a large scale UK breeder takes 100 animals over to Hamm/Houten to sell, and brings some back, plus maybe some pickups. Would they need certification for 'each animal'? ... or would they list and value their animals as a total when leaving the UK? ... then pay tax in Calais as the point of importation ... then get a tax refund in Calais on the way back for any unsold animals ... and then pay tax in Dover for any new animals bought? ... or would the whole process need to be handled by a reptile import/export agent?

Individual buyers just popping over to buy would need to declare at Dover and then pay tax (again, assuming we lose free-trade).

USA to UK importation is going to be handled via a courier and that will go through customs clearance via an agent and taxed at the airport so the new owner is a bit distant from the process. Plus that is a one-way shipment which is a bit different from Hamm/Houten/Doncaster.
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Last edited by dcap; 12-03-2017 at 07:02 PM..
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2017, 07:58 PM
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At this stage it is unsure but by the very fact that we are leaving an open market some form of registration, paperwork or licences will be required.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15-03-2017, 12:37 PM
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One thing is certain - the need for CITES import and export permits for all Annex A/Appendix I and Annex B/Appendix II species. That includes all python and boa species. So those visiting Hamm or Houten will have to plan ahead, decide which species they are intending to buy and how many, and get an import permit for the UK and an export permit from Germany or Holland before going.
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Old 25-03-2017, 06:14 PM
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Best ask Bob Clark and all the other non EU breeders how they go on with getting their herps in and out of Europe. Don't seem to be much of a problem for them. Seems to me that herp trade movements seems to be a law unto itself as far as the EU is concerned.
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Old 28-03-2017, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry python View Post
Best ask Bob Clark and all the other non EU breeders how they go on with getting their herps in and out of Europe. Don't seem to be much of a problem for them. Seems to me that herp trade movements seems to be a law unto itself as far as the EU is concerned.
You have missed the point entirely. Currently, as an EU member, once legally imported into an EU country, there are no further controls on movement due to borderless trade within the bloc.
However, once the UK leaves, we will join longer have that, and so to bring CITES species into the UK, you will need an import permit, which as I have already explained needs to be in place BEFORE bringing animals over the water.
I would suggest that you read up on CITES before making inaccurate comments.
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Old 28-03-2017, 06:04 AM
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Not entirely. The Americans and Canadians don't seem to have much problem importing animals into Europe.
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Old 28-03-2017, 09:08 AM
huh
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No doubt there are some high volume US breeders bringing over some high value morphs, but this is their business not a hobby ... are they doing a two-way shipment though? At least one of them has a UK or EU importer, so maybe they ship to their premises instead of direct to the show. Maybe they can factor in the extra time to ship their animals to the EU importer, then get themselves over to Europe for the show, then leave and arrange the shipment of any un-sold animals. Or perhaps the un-sold animals remain in the EU with the importer to be sold at the next show or elsewhere.

Their reptiles would also be coming in/out of Europe by courier.

Compare this to someone at hobby scale driving their own snakes in their own car in/out of Europe the evening before the show and then returning to the UK the night of the show. This person wouldn't have the luxury of time to ship their reptiles in advance. Nor would they have the time to apply for and receive the import/export paperwork to return that next day with an unknown number of snakes.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2017, 09:38 AM
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Genuine Question: in the future, could someone apply for an export permit from Germany for say 10 x Royal Pythons, 10 x Green Tree Pythons and 10 x Sumatran Pythons and apply for import permits through the UK authorities for the same?

If come the show you were actually only to purchase 8 x Royal Pythons, 2 x Green Tree Pythons and 5 x Sumatran Pythons would there be any potential issues in doing this or would you have to have the number of individuals stated on the permits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian14 View Post
You have missed the point entirely. Currently, as an EU member, once legally imported into an EU country, there are no further controls on movement due to borderless trade within the bloc.
However, once the UK leaves, we will join longer have that, and so to bring CITES species into the UK, you will need an import permit, which as I have already explained needs to be in place BEFORE bringing animals over the water.
I would suggest that you read up on CITES before making inaccurate comments.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2017, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Central Scotland Reptiles View Post
Genuine Question: in the future, could someone apply for an export permit from Germany for say 10 x Royal Pythons, 10 x Green Tree Pythons and 10 x Sumatran Pythons and apply for import permits through the UK authorities for the same?

If come the show you were actually only to purchase 8 x Royal Pythons, 2 x Green Tree Pythons and 5 x Sumatran Pythons would there be any potential issues in doing this or would you have to have the number of individuals stated on the permits?
I will need to confirm this but to my knowledge it would not be a problem, as long as you don't exceed the numbers listed for each species.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 29-03-2017, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian14 View Post
You have missed the point entirely. Currently, as an EU member, once legally imported into an EU country, there are no further controls on movement due to borderless trade within the bloc.
However, once the UK leaves, we will join longer have that, and so to bring CITES species into the UK, you will need an import permit, which as I have already explained needs to be in place BEFORE bringing animals over the water.
I would suggest that you read up on CITES before making inaccurate comments.
I would be surprised if there is any change to the current little or nil interest shown by UK borderforce toward the passage of reptiles from over the channel in the UK. UK borderfoce total commitment of resources to drugs, beer, baccy, illegal immigrants is unlikely to be compromised to spend time on peoples purchases of pet reptiles.
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