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Oversaturation of reptiles

1K views 40 replies 12 participants last post by  Wrench 
#1 ·
hi all i was just wondering if any of you worry about over saturation of certain species. This is purely a "i was bored and thinking thread" but i would like to hear peoples opinions anyway.
Basically my thoughts were as followed. 20years ago reptile keeping was not as popular as it is today. As we learn about anumals, we breed them. Does anyone think that we are too good at this? For example beardys at one stage would have been min of £100 by todays standards and now you can pick them up as low as £5 and even the high end stuff is only reaching 200 or so. This would appear we have bred too many of them. It has also began to appear in veileds i believe and have no doubt in others. I suppose the bonus is that through this there is less likely to be inbred of these species because so many different blood lines have been used.
So do you all think we will over saturate certain species to the point they end up not being bred so the price goes up or that we will continue in our ways? I know the love and welfare of the animals is important but surely we are just making a surplus of pets that may well be mistreated as avaliability goes up, care goes down alot. As we have seen with the usa and iguanas over the past 20 years.
All opinions welcome.
Thanks for reading (Rant over lol)
 
#5 ·
I am cutting down on breeding next year, just a few higher morphs.
I do think its the people who are getting dragons, breeding them and selling them for a fiver for example that are damaging the market and devaluing certain species. They breed shit loads of say beardies, dont realise the costs of keeping, feeding, housing them etc... and want to get shut of them quick hence a flood in the market.
 
#6 ·
I doubt it as breeders can't keep all of the stock so need to sell them on so if demand depletes people will breed less knowing they can't sell them. At least with reptiles it's not like what happened with dogs where crufts and the kennel club was invented and people started to purposefully inbreed them for the best traits trying to conform to the "perfect dog" as set out by kennel club guide lines thus leading to the enormous array of genetic desieses found in dogs. So as you said earlier it will broaden the gene pool and also in a way increase peoples knowlege and thus the care of reptiles. Reptile vets would also be less specialist in that case and more of them would appear with lower prices. (sorry about the rant :p) However I also agree that it would have disadvantages, some of which you have already mentioned.
 
#7 ·
Its good, its what i wanted, i know alot of people on here breed to get specific results and wondered how they thought of people breeding for the sake of it on vast numbers. I also believe that there should be a patition or however you spell it to be able to have more power then the rspca for reptiles specifically around the country. but thats a whole new kettle of fish haha
 
#8 ·
Well although the RSPCA do say they deal with domestic animals I think they do have the power to take any animal from their owner when there is evidence of willfull neglect. I could be wrong on this but I saw something where someone had a nile crocodile in a 3ft tank filled with water and it had obviously not grown as large as it should have and had its snout bent upwards due to the fact it could only just fit in the tank. I do think that there comes a point when breeding is a welfare issue on an individual and species level and its not going to happen but I wish that it was a highly regulated area but its not and isn't going to be unfortunately :(.
 
#9 ·
Its such a shame i mean i doubt there is a single member on here who has kept reptiles over 3 or 4 months and not seen some type of neglect. The reason breeders annoy me is if they dont have the space, time or money to deal with what they are breeding and yet do it anyways for the money at the end, i hav also heard tales of people not supplimenting properly to stunt growth because no one wants adult lizards.
 
#16 ·
Thats about the worse thing ive ever heard.... sorry not havin a go at anyone that is just so wrong..... i bought 2 small beardies because they werent gettin proper care, I had to rehome them, into a fantastic new home i might add :flrt:...... but they were very small for thier age... Now im wondering if this is whats happened to them :(
 
#10 ·
Just want to clear things up there, I take it you mean while on here or researching they have seen neglect? Alot of breeders (especially ones i've seen on here) are responsible but as you said there should be none who aren't the trouble is that since anyone can breed them they are not now going to impose any legeslation to monitor this, I think that if you needed a license to breed reptiles it wouldn't be a bad thing I mean current breeders could be inspected and then given a license etc but it simply and unfortunately wont happen.
 
#11 ·
In my opinion too many people are breeding Beardies for 'money making'. Like you have said even the high end morphs aren't selling for as much anymore.

I've also recently seen a fair few 14/15 year olds jumping in the deep end at breeding.

I think it's alright for abit of experience just aslong as you've got homes lined up..

It wouldn't surprise me if people who can't be arsed to look after them anymore let them free outside..
 
#12 ·
Yeah it wouldn't suprise me either but it would have to be the worst possible idea as they would just die. Like I said earlier I just with there was more control over it such as a reptile breeding license but it just wont happen. Having said that I wouldn't want to put off the many respectable breeders who are responsible at what they do.
 
#14 ·
Yeah obviously but atleast something would be being done and people could get reptiles from licensed breeders then. Right now nothing is being done, anyone can breed and so people buy reptiles with the wrong impressions, information etc where as a license would let people know who is a reputable breeder who knows what they are doing, but like I said unfortunately it wont happen :(.
 
#15 ·
I can understand a license may help for your reasons but look at the amount of people shops and breeders with pet shop licenses that have dirty and overcrowded vivs and churn out hundreds of babies per year - it doesn't control their standards or the welfare of their animals very well. :bash:
 
#17 ·
hers a thing Ive always said
a breeder should be licenced
and a licence should be renewed every year after a vet inspection
also a breeder cant sell a reptile unless its to a person that has had a vet inspection and been pasted to own a reptile
the license should state how many reps you can own at any one time
and the breeder has to fill in the license when selling a reptile
if you wont more reps than is stated on the licence again you need a vet check to see if you have the room to house said rep
spot checks can be taken at any time or if some one is reported for abuse
defra could give the vets power to do this I'm sure

this can work as its like a fire arms licence
sadly it never will happen
but i would champion this cause all day

but at the moment all we can do as breeders is try and vet our potential
customers the best we can

Ive turned people away and refused point blank to sell them one of my dragons
if people slag me down for it then fine
i don't give a rubber duck
at least Ive tried my best
 
#18 ·
I worry far more about certain species than over saturation as a whole.The Reticulated Python for example,now they come in such a manor of paint jobs,they have become very appealing to the casual observer,much like the Albino Burms of the 90's.Many are being purchased from pet shops as young,docile little snakes by people who have very little experience.As has been shown far too often previously there are many more pet shops willing to sell unsuitable reptiles to anyone wanting them,without any screening process and often no real information.I often wonder what is going to become of the 1000's of Retics sold in the last couple of years once they do reach full maturity and Bob & Julie down the road dont have their "Ickle Princess" anymore but a 19ft female Tiger Retic.
I think we'll see the same situation as we did with Burms 10-15 years ago with rescue centers full to bursting and Zoo's not accepting donated snakes,and only the purists there to try and sort things out.Again.
Sorry for the snake rant in the lizard section,but animals such as Niles and Water monitors are becoming increasingly available too,and the same situation could well arise there.
 
#20 ·
£5 for beardies? privately maybe....but they are still selling at £23 each at trade prices....and they are in LOW stocks, due to the demand on them....the £23 at trade then needs 17.5% vat added onto it...then a shop need to make its own markup....so i wouldnt say they were unwanted anymore....as if this was true they still wouldnt be the biggested sellers and in low stocks: victory:
 
#21 ·
£5 for beardies? privately maybe....but they are still selling at £23 each at trade prices....and they are in LOW stocks, due to the demand on them....the £23 at trade then needs 17.5% vat added onto it...then a shop need to make its own markup....so i wouldnt say they were unwanted anymore....as if this was true they still wouldnt be the biggested sellers and in low stocks: victory:
But if they are the biggest sellers more people will begin to breed them and eventually will saturate the market.
 
#23 ·
Oh and i agree with Mark on the bottom line being down to us vetting the new owners thorouhly to do our part.

Thankfully with the low number of babies i will be producing quality will be higher and i can be extra picky about where they go, there are already people i would never sell too or buy from also.
 
#25 ·
Oh and i agree with Mark on the bottom line being down to us vetting the new owners thorouhly to do our part.

Thankfully with the low number of babies i will be producing quality will be higher and i can be extra picky about where they go, there are already people i would never sell too or buy from also.
Atleast there is some comfort in the fact that, as I said earlier, their are good responsible breeders out their who do whatsb est for the animal over the profit and thats how it should be full stop but it's not how it always is.
 
#30 ·
:lol2: take a deep breath, get a cup of tea and calm down, it is a discussion not an argument :2thumb:
 
#32 ·
Yes i have been warned about the sorts of enquireys you get :lol2:
As i said i personally won't have to deal with as many as some due to having less babies available :no1:
 
#33 ·
I have to agree with some of the statements that say if you are responsible enough to make sure you have the time, the money and the space to keep them, to avoid undervaluing them, then good stuff.

I had prices in mind, and I will not shift. My cresties are good quality, will be in perfect health when they go to their new homes, and I have room to keep them longer if I have too.

The people the sell baby cresties at £30 annoy me, why devalue the animal because you ran out of space? You shouldn't have bred in the first place.

It's like Leaftails, I happily paid a very good breeder £250 because what I am getting is a quality sub-adult male Uroplatus Henkeli. That is just me, and I know some people spend hundreds more on something they really want and pay it because they know it's good quality from a great breeder!

Anyway, I also will say, there are some I would not sell too, and some I would love to sell to, and I always will meet the new keepers of my hatchlings to ensure they go to a good home.

I don't see the harm in asking questions, checking they have a setup, I am only a small time breeder, but I love every minute of it, and whilst there is still a demand, I will probably breed.

:)
 
#36 ·
I would say at the end of the day PV went on gut instinct which is what i will probably do although i realise this isn't always right i will have done my best :2thumb:
 
#40 ·
Yes many of the breeders i have chatted to take 'how much please?' or 'any red ones?' as an email to ignore or turn down politely.

Personally as a buyer i like my setups double checked, there is alot of conflicting advice around, you can only learn so much and imo if a breeder is trusting you with 1 of their babies they deserve a say/opinion on how it will be kept and the occasional update.

My children love their 'spiderman lizards' (that is cresties to us) and although i still havnt mastered the art of getting pictures in the dark i have contacted both the breeders i brought from with updates.

I have also been warned that although i have potential buyers for my 37 cooking eggs that several of them are looking for a particular colour/sex and several more will have already found their baby by the time mine are ready so getting homes lined up before they hatch is only half the job and selling the half you still have afterwards is the next bit.

As i say it is only through discussions like this we learn from each other and pick up tips :2thumb:
 
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