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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinheadOi85 View Post
I dont think is a case of it not being approved as such FLutter, I feel people are asking so they can get a bigger picture and see if a different veiw point can cast any help....perhaps pics of the set up?? (mainly cos im nosy and like looking at set ups for inspiration)

Congratrs on going into teaching very rewarding job...alas tho you struggle talking to people how do you cope in a classroom situation??? (may help using the same stratergies and coping mechs in principle to talkng on the telephone)
They're kids, I'm fine with kids, you could make the biggest mistake and they've found something new to amuse them a week later. Our biology teacher killed a hamster in class, by the next day it was old news and non of them cared. I duno, talking to kids doesn't bother me, like give me a class of 30 to teach I'm fine, but give me a presentation in front of just 1 adult like for interviews and it terrifies me, most people pretend the people in presentations are naked, I pretend they're all kids........ lol
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 04:51 AM
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I've looked at the link previously posted about the mealworms, so far only got through the chitin part. I found the paper it posted as a reference for that table of chitin content and in the discussion section it discusses the fact that their values do not match up with their references and the reason given for this is 'unknown'. So unfortunately this is not looking like a reliable source. Also its reasons for exoskeletons appearing in faeces is lacking in research, or at least isn't showing its research. To conclude what it did for exoskeletons in faeces it would need to do controlled studies on correctly kept dragons, overfed dragons, dragons with parasites and dragons that are too cold, which that there is no evidence that it did. I've not yet finished reading but I'll get back to you.
  #103 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 05:03 AM
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Another problem is that they don't directly measure chitin levels, they measure the amount of nitrogen and amino acids, and its hard to say what proportion of amino acid and nitrogen is chitin and not some other source, so this is not really reliable.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 05:12 AM
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I'd link the article but I'm using the university's subscription to access it, so linking it won't work. Not sure if anyone will be able to find it on google scholar? I want to copy and paste the abstract and conclusion, but I think that breaks copywrite laws........ I know I can reference it but I don't think referencing means can can literally just copy and paste.

Basically the article doesn't conclude that mealworms contain more chitin, all they do is say about amounts of amino acids and proteins, that's all they conclude.
  #105 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 05:15 AM
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The paper is from Zoo Biology, Volume 26, Issue 2. Its 'Estimate of Chitin in Raw Whole Insects' by Mark D. Finke.
  #106 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 05:20 AM
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Hey, this paper contains a table of chitin estimates that actually says the amount of chitin is higher in mealworms, I mean the results aren't reliable anyway, but it begs the question where did this guy get them numbers from to quote in his article, coz so far they look fabricated because the reference her says they're from doesn't agree with them figures........
  #107 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 05:25 AM
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ah, he took the figures for superworms not meal worms for his meal worm figures. Its conclusive, the guys figures are wrong!

I'm not saying he meant to use incorrect figures, coz the numbers are right next to each other in the table, its an easy mistake, but the figures are wrong hence making this section of the link posted previously incorrect
  #108 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flutter View Post
Yeah, I'm going to read the papers on it and stuff, then I can make my own decision. Why wouldn't I, I'm not the cyber bullies that can't admit that what they did was wrong.......... That guy who called me a moron can actually be done for assault. I'm not even kidding, if he did it in person it'd be verbal assault, can't remember what its called in writing.

I'll get back to you guys about the research, because I've just graduated from my chemistry degree so I can look and see if its good research. Unfortunately not all research is good and people see what they want to see with their results, at the end of the day writing a paper that confirms what everyone knew already does suck lol.
The resaerch has been written and undertaken by qualifed individuals who hold PhD's in the relvent area.

If it was not decent resarch i would not recomend you reading, i'm a qualified psychologist, finishing a PhD, who works in research every day at a well known university. I also teach. So trust me its good research.

But trust whatevery one, who has more expereince then you is saying, mealworms are fine. There area few memebers replying here, myself including who have a lot of experience, i have book chapters and papers on the subject as well, and we are saying mealworms are fine. its and old myth that they are not, which is recited time and time again by inexperienced individuals who dont know what they are talking about.

And regarding you comment on cyber bullying, as far as i am aware there is prenelty no leglislation on cyber bullying and no chages can yet be brought. Though this is under review.

Jay
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flutter View Post
ah, he took the figures for superworms not meal worms for his meal worm figures. Its conclusive, the guys figures are wrong!

I'm not saying he meant to use incorrect figures, coz the numbers are right next to each other in the table, its an easy mistake, but the figures are wrong hence making this section of the link posted previously incorrect
I think you have got a tad confused.

I'll summerise for you, meal worms, although high in chiten, beardies have no issues with digestion or consumption. Correclty supplemented and gut loaded they are fine. I am ahppy to being in a very long list of reference to support this, if you so wish.

Jay
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Staffordshire Exotics Society
Last Sunday of the month
Come along if you are in the area
Next meetings 31st March and 28th April



  #110 (permalink)  
Old 22-06-2011, 10:18 AM
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i personaly cant believe this thread is still going afterall you spoke to woodrott on the first or 2nd page. you do know he is one of the most respected breeders of high end morphed bearded dragons in the uk and most possibly europe aswell dont you. he knows his stuff far better than 99% of people on here and it bewilders me that you chose not to accept his advice and help but yet keep looking for advice
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Ged I and a lot of other people on the forum would never recommend mixing species if only there is no risk and if it is benefically e.g. tropical woodlice and crested geckos, so I would say no as it's not worth the risk.

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1.0.0 chamaeleo calyptratus
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