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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Philippa View Post
Geez!! I haven't ignored you, I have only asked for advice TONIGHT.
That's fair enough but you haven't mentioned anything on it, either way they need splitting, far to many people join this and other websites I'm on and out right refuse to split up beardies even with 10+ people telling them it needs to be done and it gets tiring I apologise if I came across rude

Do you have any photos of your set up?

Agree with above beech chips are usually a bit nono for most lizards, most of a snake substrate upturned tiles were always my favourite for beardies
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by vgorst View Post
Sorry, missed your other post. If you were referring to beech chips then ultimately the decision is up to you. Personally, I would never use it. If it is swallowed they're large, sharp and indigestible, it could cause immense damage (and pain) to their delicate insides which would result in huge vet bills and/or a dead dragon. They really are worse than small, particulate substrates such as play sand as a small amount can be passed easily (providing husbandry is right).

The safest bet is to go for some sort of lino, tiles, slate or reptile carpet. But there are tonnes of threads regarding substrate. When you have some spare time have a search for them.
Ah right ok, will do that. If I had known I was getting them I would have been able to look into it more.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Exzhal View Post
If someone comes to ask for advice but ignores the advice given it's not really worth giving more. Beardies should never be kept together under no circumstances. You can check my post history I've given a lot of advice for these lizards in the past and have kept and bred them for years before moving on to lizards last year, I'm after the welfare for the animals and if he/she wants that to they to split them up to avoid possible casualties in the future.
How do you know your advice has been ignored? They questioned what we said, that's fair enough if you are new to the animals, not once did they say 'I'm keeping them together whatever you say'. We're throwing a lot of information her way in a short space of time. What do you expect her to do right this second? Especially as she didn't realise she was getting them.

If you didn't notice, I also suggested splitting them up... before you did actually. I also suggest splitting up beardies and other species on a regular basis, your point being?

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exzhal View Post
That's fair enough but you haven't mentioned anything on it, either way they need splitting, far to many people join this and other websites I'm on and out right refuse to split up beardies even with 10+ people telling them it needs to be done and it gets tiring
I think a large problem is the large amounts of crap information out there, along with shops. The link the OP posted also suggested keeping them in groups, a well-known and recommended reptile shop. Shops say it, so it must be law...right?
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Last edited by vgorst; 18-01-2013 at 09:04 PM..
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by vgorst View Post
How do you know your advice has been ignored? They questioned what we said, that's fair enough if you are new to the animals, not once did they say 'I'm keeping them together whatever you say'. We're throwing a lot of information her way in a short space of time. What do you expect her to do right this second? Especially as she didn't realise she was getting them.

If you didn't notice, I also suggested splitting them up... before you did actually. I also suggest splitting up beardies and other species on a regular basis, your point being?

EDIT:



I think a large problem is the large amounts of crap information out there, along with shops. The link the OP posted also suggested keeping them in groups, a well-known and recommended reptile shop. Shops say it, so it must be law...right?
Sorry for coming across rude

I agree shops are terrible with advice especially beardies, I think probably every reptile shop I've visited houses them together even a really respected one I visit often for my snake equip
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exzhal View Post
That's fair enough but you haven't mentioned anything on it, either way they need splitting, far to many people join this and other websites I'm on and out right refuse to split up beardies even with 10+ people telling them it needs to be done and it gets tiring I apologise if I came across rude

Do you have any photos of your set up?

Agree with above beech chips are usually a bit nono for most lizards, most of a snake substrate upturned tiles were always my favourite for beardies
People may join the website and do what you have said, but no need to be rude when all i'm doing is asking for a bit of advice. I am trying to get as much information as possible to make sure they live a long and healthy life. I am just getting confused when a website I was told to visit to get advice on how to care for them states to have them together etc but I come on here and told they can't be together. I haven't ignored anything you have said but when you come over aggressive then why would anyone respond to that?

I will be getting something new, because the photos I put up in the photo section clearly shows that this vivarium is not suitable at all. With the beech wood chips, again that particualr website at Northampton Reptile centre state that's what they would advise is used.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Philippa View Post
People may join the website and do what you have said, but no need to be rude when all i'm doing is asking for a bit of advice. I am trying to get as much information as possible to make sure they live a long and healthy life. I am just getting confused when a website I was told to visit to get advice on how to care for them states to have them together etc but I come on here and told they can't be together. I haven't ignored anything you have said but when you come over aggressive then why would anyone respond to that?

I will be getting something new, because the photos I put up in the photo section clearly shows that this vivarium is not suitable at all. With the beech wood chips, again that particualr website at Northampton Reptile centre state that's what they would advise is used.
Sorry again mate

From this picture in your albums



They do actually look really healthy which is a good thing, if you decide to start over with a completely new viv one piece of advice is don't go for Pets at Home "Bearded Dragon Viv for Life", a lot of new owners get these but their dimensions are sadly way off what a life time viv should be, I'd recommend just going for a basic 4x2x2 and installing the light fittings yourself

VivExotic don't make 4x2x2 anymore with their new range but you can get the same size from BlueLizardReptiles for about for about £130 I think it was
vgorst likes this.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 09:19 PM
Egg
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Originally Posted by Exzhal View Post
Sorry again mate

From this picture in your albums

image

They do actually look really healthy which is a good thing, if you decide to start over with a completely new viv one piece of advice is don't go for Pets at Home "Bearded Dragon Viv for Life", a lot of new owners get these but their dimensions are sadly way off what a life time viv should be, I'd recommend just going for a basic 4x2x2 and installing the light fittings yourself

VivExotic don't make 4x2x2 anymore with their new range but you can get the same size from BlueLizardReptiles for about for about £130 I think it was
Ok thanks for that.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Exzhal View Post
Sorry for coming across rude

I agree shops are terrible with advice especially beardies, I think probably every reptile shop I've visited houses them together even a really respected one I visit often for my snake equip


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippa View Post
People may join the website and do what you have said, but no need to be rude when all i'm doing is asking for a bit of advice. I am trying to get as much information as possible to make sure they live a long and healthy life. I am just getting confused when a website I was told to visit to get advice on how to care for them states to have them together etc but I come on here and told they can't be together. I haven't ignored anything you have said but when you come over aggressive then why would anyone respond to that?

I will be getting something new, because the photos I put up in the photo section clearly shows that this vivarium is not suitable at all. With the beech wood chips, again that particualr website at Northampton Reptile centre state that's what they would advise is used.
The problem with shops (even good ones) is, at the end of the day, they need to make a profit. If that means selling 2 beardies (with the chance that things won't work out) and having the owners come back to get a brand new setup... well then they are the winners. For that reason (and a few others) I don't really take advice from shops, experienced keepers are the way to go To be honest, I've never seen a care sheet written by a shop that I'd follow down to the letter (or maybe I'm just a fussy bugger )

People also have this idea that they need company. The only time you would see these guys together in the wild is fighting, mating and possibly sleeping (to conserve heat in the freezing night temperatures in Australia). But people want them to have company, which often leads to problems because they don't understand their nature. Also with the hope of breeding or saving space, again not for the dragons own good I'm afraid.

To live a long and healthy life, separation is actually the easiest way of doing that. Beardies can live together 'successfully' (as in not trying to attack each other and breed to death). This, however, would require a huge tank, multiple basking spots and UVB tubes and loads of food - this is difficult to achieve. They're a bit like children, always want what they can't have or what someone else does have. This results in dominance and aggression. I could send you some horrific injuries from beardies that have fought each other over resources - it's not pretty and I doubt something that you ever want to deal with!

Again, substrate is down to preference. I've told you my reasons for not using it but go have a research about substrate. In my opinion, if you can eliminate a risk, with no downsides then take it! It doesn't happen very often in this hobby. Something like slate or lino can't be swallowed but is also very hygienic and easy to clean. It's up to you.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 09:29 PM
Egg
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Originally Posted by vgorst View Post




The problem with shops (even good ones) is, at the end of the day, they need to make a profit. If that means selling 2 beardies (with the chance that things won't work out) and having the owners come back to get a brand new setup... well then they are the winners. For that reason (and a few others) I don't really take advice from shops, experienced keepers are the way to go To be honest, I've never seen a care sheet written by a shop that I'd follow down to the letter (or maybe I'm just a fussy bugger )

People also have this idea that they need company. The only time you would see these guys together in the wild is fighting, mating and possibly sleeping (to conserve heat in the freezing night temperatures in Australia). But people want them to have company, which often leads to problems because they don't understand their nature. Also with the hope of breeding or saving space, again not for the dragons own good I'm afraid.

To live a long and healthy life, separation is actually the easiest way of doing that. Beardies can live together 'successfully' (as in not trying to attack each other and breed to death). This, however, would require a huge tank, multiple basking spots and UVB tubes and loads of food - this is difficult to achieve. They're a bit like children, always want what they can't have or what someone else does have. This results in dominance and aggression. I could send you some horrific injuries from beardies that have fought each other over resources - it's not pretty and I doubt something that you ever want to deal with!

Again, substrate is down to preference. I've told you my reasons for not using it but go have a research about substrate. In my opinion, if you can eliminate a risk, with no downsides then take it! It doesn't happen very often in this hobby. Something like slate or lino can't be swallowed but is also very hygienic and easy to clean. It's up to you.
Looks like my present is going to cost ME a lot of money Ah well. With the subtrate, obviously I don't want to give them something that is going to harm them, so will look at alternatives.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 18-01-2013, 09:36 PM
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Looks like my present is going to cost ME a lot of money Ah well. With the subtrate, obviously I don't want to give them something that is going to harm them, so will look at alternatives.
We've all been there at one point, at least you know in the future if you decide to get more reptiles you'll remember to just start it from scratch yourself
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