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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Drayvan View Post
That's a point, if I had anything boa sized or larger, damned if Im taking them out to feed them!
So, why should small snakes be treated any differently?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Drayvan View Post
That's a point, if I had anything boa sized or larger, damned if Im taking them out to feed them!
They are only babies atm but as mentioned before, I REALLY don't want them to relate coming out with feeding... Won't that suck when they are 7ft+
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffers3 View Post
So what if they accidentally eat a bit of substrate? They don't eat off a plate in the wild - and their digestive systems cope with fur and bone, so I can't imagine a bit of newspaper, aspen or whatever is going to harm them. Most of the time, this doesn't happen anyway. They also die an awful lot in the wild for me, its not worth the risk, not my call to make the decision for others but it's a risk thats there. Banford not so long ago found this out, theres a thread about it somewhere.

All of my snakes come out regularly and get a quick look over every time. Feeding time couldn't be a worse time to do this! I meant inside their mouths lol of course, they get a once over externally whenever they come out, it worries me how many times mouth rot, RI etc is missed until it's blatantly obvious.

So, you take your snake out to feed it..... what then do you do about leaving it alone for 24-48 hours after it has fed? Handling them after feeding risks regurgitation and feeding response bites. If you are worried about them dragging their food into their hide (can't think why, but let's roll with it...) - just remove the hide for feeding. personally, I wouldn't do this. If they are more comfortable eating in their hide, then that's where they eat. The fact that I can't see it is disappointing, but irrelevant. I don't want them dragging food into their hide because it is full of substrate and moss, if I mess around taking it all out, I may as well just take the snake out lol! As said, some do get left in, because they simply don't want to come out. Zuri for example was a great strike feeder outside her viv, now she won't eat unless it's left outside her hide, which is fair enough As for handling, that's pretty rubbish anyway. Theres nothing wrong with gently picking them up after feeding as long as you support the body and feeding bump and don't go squeezing them....they're not made of glass!! haha

Presumably, you've also got to buy several feeding set-ups as well, which are sat idle most of the time? I'd need at least 3 and probably more, given the size range of my snakes (baby trinket up to a burm). By the way, if you want an adult burm to start associating being taken out of it's viv with feed time, you are welcome to do so..... Nope, just the one luckily thats kicking around for all the animals to come out whilst I'm cleaning etc which gets wiped out and disinfected between each animal. And like I said above before you replied, yup, damned if Im taking a larger snake out to feed it, thats common sense lol! I'd hope anyway....

You've tried to underplay the restraining / feeding bites argument. Surely you've noticed that if you just left them where they were, you wouldn't have this problem. The ones I take out, don't strike at anything other than the food, hell the hognose doesn't even strike lol the ones that started got left in their viv (the house snake) and the others need their food warmed before they eat it, and considering im always cold they don't strike at me

As I said, lots of reasons to leave them where they are -and none for moving them.
Answers in red, although I was just interested in your reasoning not a debate, but seeing as there was bits directed at me I've answered
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:13 PM
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I prefer to feed inside the enclosure, because i wouldnt fancy lugging around a 10ft burm in feeding mode...
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Drayvan View Post
Answers in red, although I was just interested in your reasoning not a debate, but seeing as there was bits directed at me I've answered
So, apart from substrate ingestion, you can't see any reason for feeding them outside, either?

Yes, they do die more frequently in the wild, but it's not from eating "substrate". What are you keeping your snakes on, that's so dangerous? Wouldn't it be safer to switch to something that's not going to kill them if they accidentally swallow a bit?

I nearly always watch mine eating. If they have an appropriate sized food item, any substrate stuck to the food is usually scraped off as the food is squeezed through the snake's mouth. Some will, inevitably, get past, but it will be typically small bits, that would be harmless anyway.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffers3 View Post
So, apart from substrate ingestion, you can't see any reason for feeding them outside, either? As I said, I can watch them eat every so often. Therefore see their jaw movements, behaviour, inside the mouth, which I normally wouldn't, which to me is important to see if it suddenly changes indicating a problem. Although swallowing substrate would be the main, most likely problem...but not the only reason.

Yes, they do die more frequently in the wild, but it's not from eating "substrate". What are you keeping your snakes on, that's so dangerous? Wouldn't it be safer to switch to something that's not going to kill them if they accidentally swallow a bit? How do you know? do you have studies to hand saying that no snake in the wild has ever died from swallowing a sharp piece of wood or stone? I'm not saying the second they eat substrate they will die but it's not a risk I want to take with my snakes. If you're fine with it, fine with me They're on aspen, and yes, it probably won't kill them to digest a bit, but in the unlikely case of a bit injuring the snakes internally on the way down, causing infection....I'm not risking it, I don't see why I should change their substrate just to feed them inside, when they do fine feeding outside, and every snake that I've ever fed outside the enclosure has been fine too.

I nearly always watch mine eating. If they have an appropriate sized food item, any substrate stuck to the food is usually scraped off as the food is squeezed through the snake's mouth. Some will, inevitably, get past, but it will be typically small bits, that would be harmless anyway.
Again, in red.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:34 PM
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Why can't you watch your snakes eat inside their vivs? I watch all of mine eating.

If they really want to eat inside a hide, shouldn't you just let them do so?

There aren't any stones in the substrate I use (as for what happens in the wild, you know as well as I do that this can't be proven). All I will say is that snakes have been incredibly successful over millions of years, eating prey items in deserts, jungles, meadowland, even underwater. It's not common for them to choke to death on a bit of grass.

As for aspen - I think a digestive system that can dissolve fur and bone will make short work of a bit of aspen! Their guts can cope with rodent claws and teeth - or do you remove these before feeding as well?
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffers3 View Post
Why can't you watch your snakes eat inside their vivs? I watch all of mine eating.

If they really want to eat inside a hide, shouldn't you just let them do so? I do, I don't pin my snakes down and wrench them out of their vivs to feed them. In the years I've been feeding snakes, I've never once been bitten by reading their behaviour and treating them as individuals. If they make it clear one week they don't want to come out, they don't, simple as that. But I am more comfortable feeding them outside, so if they are amenable to it, that's what they do.

There aren't any stones in the substrate I use (as for what happens in the wild, you know as well as I do that this can't be proven). All I will say is that snakes have been incredibly successful over millions of years, eating prey items in deserts, jungles, meadowland, even underwater. It's not common for them to choke to death on a bit of grass. Exactly, so you can't say either way, so please don't use it to tell me I'm wrong and indeed they have, but 'in the wild' *asks Sevensins to kick a kitten* have a better developed immune system to deal with any injuries they might get from an internal scrape or whatever. Im not talking about choking, or blockages, I'm talking about internal injury from something sharp...especially in a baby corn or hoggy whos stomach is aboutthe size of a piece of aspen.

As for aspen - I think a digestive system that can dissolve fur and bone will make short work of a bit of aspen! Their guts can cope with rodent claws and teeth - or do you remove these before feeding as well? As above, I'm not talking about not being able to digest it....never have been. I'm well aware of how strong their stomach acid is, I'm talking about the journey from the mouth to the stomach having a sharp bit of substrate pressed between the prey and esophagus wall
Also why are you being so defensive? I've not come on here telling people they are wrong to feed inside their enclosure just airing my opinion, so please stop trying to make out I'm wrong.....
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:17 PM
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Also why are you being so defensive? I've not come on here telling people they are wrong to feed inside their enclosure just airing my opinion, so please stop trying to make out I'm wrong.....

All I'm doing (since we're on the New Owners section) is to point out that that it's not necessary to remove snakes for feeding and that it can actually do more harm than good. You've already admitted that you can see good reasons why some snakes shouldn't be moved. I'm just extending that a bit....

I know you won't change what you're doing - any more than I will.


Besides which, it was you who asked for my opinion in detail in the first place......
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:21 PM
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just airing my opinion, so please stop trying to make out I'm wrong.....

But, if I think you are wrong.... ????

Isn't that the point of a discussion forum?
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