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Old 06-02-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffers3 View Post
All I'm doing (since we're on the New Owners section) is to point out that that it's not necessary to remove snakes for feeding and that it can actually do more harm than good. You've already admitted that you can see good reasons why some snakes shouldn't be moved. I'm just extending that a bit....

I know you won't change what you're doing - any more than I will.


Besides which, it was you who asked for my opinion in detail in the first place......
Both methods can do more harm than good really, depends how you go about it

And yes, I asked for an elaboration on the statement you made, not for you to pick holes in my way of doing things
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tonksy1903 View Post
does anyone recomend feeding inside or outside
Hi Newbie, Depending on a couple of variables.

1, If you own 1 snake and it was say 6ft or less and it was on a loose substrate then perhaps i may consider feeding out if that's what you wanted to do.

2, I have 13 fairly large snakes and there is no way i am getting them all out to feed 1 by 1.

None of mine when on Aspen, bark etc have never had any issues with being fed inside the Viv.

You could always lay a piece of newspaper etc under the intended feeding area if worried about ingestion.
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:34 PM
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I'm by no means an expert but wild snakes seem to do OK scavenging whatever they can find which has been god knows where before they stuff it in their gob.

Personally i feed mine outside in a RUB, my thinking is as i get them out most days and only on feeding day they go into the RUB by which time they are in my hands anyway they won't link coming out with feeding time every time the viv doors open.

I am however cautious when removing them to put back in their vivs but with a full belly they would be less inclined to response strike?
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by iPHAILZ View Post
I am however cautious when removing them to put back in their vivs but with a full belly they would be less inclined to response strike?

I wouldn't bet on this! It takes a while for many snakes to return to normal after a feeding response. They will be able to smell food, so will still be on the lookout for it!
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:42 PM
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I wouldn't bet on this! It takes a while for many snakes to return to normal after a feeding response. They will be able to smell food, so will still be on the lookout for it!
Thanks for the advice, i have always heard about "feeding response" but never quite understood what it meant other than snakes are looking for food and will snap at anything that smells like it.

What would you class as a suitable time to remove the snakes from the RUB after feeding?
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by iPHAILZ View Post
Thanks for the advice, i have always heard about "feeding response" but never quite understood what it meant other than snakes are looking for food and will snap at anything that smells like it.

What would you class as a suitable time to remove the snakes from the RUB after feeding?
At least 24 hours. Some people recommend 48.

I feed mine in their vivs and usually give them a couple of day's peace after feeding. My burm and boa, in particular, have huge meals (less often), so it takes a while for them to digest their food as well.
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:58 PM
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My dwarf boa gets fed in her rub, she has an amazing feeding respone for a small boa and I like my fingers in one piece and not full of holes from her teeth lol, I have only fed her outside her rub once and she caught me when I was putting her back into her rub, it's best for her and my fingers to feed her in her home lol.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:12 PM
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I have never taken a snake out of viv to feed.

I ensure food is dry, so substrate won't stick, I use aspen so should be little problem if swallowed, I also place it on a bit of kitchen roll so not directly in contact with substrate at first.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:18 PM
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I'm an 'inny' as well.


OP - The reason that there is conflicting advice out there is this is one of those herping subjects that have a large amount of keepers on both sides of the fence when it comes to it.

Therefore, all we can do is tell you what we do, justify our reasons for doing it in that way and then you get to choose which 'side' you want to come down on when you feed your own animals.


I used to be quite militant in my stance against feeding outside the viv, but I've mellowed in my old age and now I'm much more 'state my case, let people do what ever they feel is best'.

So, at a risk of repeating most of what has already been said, here is my justification for being an inny and my breakdown of being an outy.



Inny:

Advantages:
  • Snake is left in its most secure place to eat its dinner in peace
  • Snake does not have to be moved after it has eaten
  • Limits the risk of a feeding response bite
  • More convenient to feed feed large numbers of snakes
  • You can feed and leave


Disadvantages:
  • Possible risk of substrate ingestion
  • Can't gaurantee a good view of the actual feeding



Outy:

Advantages:
  • No substrate ingestion
  • Can see snake eat
  • Necessary if you cohabit


Disadvantages:

  • Moves animal out of secure environment
  • Moves the animal immediately after it has eaten
  • Trains the animal to associate specific action with food
  • Increased risk of gut tear when moving full animal, particularly with larger snakes
  • have to stay with snakes whilst they feed, or return shortly after




I keep most of my snakes on paper, so substrate ingestion isn't an issue for me, but even when I kept all my snakes on aspen, I fed in viv.

I feed all my snakes in the evenings and so once they've struck and constricted, I switch the light off and leave them to consume and digest their meals in peace. I then check in the morning if any of the drop feeders weren't hungry and remove their rodent.



The only thing that does bother me about feeding out the viv is some of the reasons people give for doing it. My favourite is the 'stops them associating me opening the viv with food and getting a feeding bite' reason.

For me, this is an illogical argument. My snakes have no idea if they are getting fed, coming out, having their water changed or what when I open their vivs, so they wait until they know (is it just 'him' or is it a rat). Now, admittedly, this is the same when feeding out of the viv, but the key here, is that the 'outy's' actually add a bit that specifically 'trains' the animal t o associate something with food. When feeding out of the viv, you are training the snake that when they get put into the tub, the next thing that comes at them is definitely food. This means that whenever you are opening the feeding tub, your more at risk of a feeding bite than you ever would be being an 'inny'.


Also, I think people who go with the 'reduces risk of feeding bite' argument may also be mixing up 'feeding response' with 'viv defensive response'. The former is, IMO, more likely for 'outys', as outlined above and the later has absolutely nothing to do with feeding at all and neither feeding method has any effect on that! (Although if viv defensive animals are nervous by nature, then the innys will likely have more success getting them to feed).

Finally, the main reasons I feed in viv is that I keep boas and they all have an incredible feeding response. They can smell the defrosting rats a mile off and by the time I take the bucket to the rep room, they are all up, out and waiting. It would be impossible for me to get the big girls out without serious risk to myself and the snake.

Also, with bigger snakes, I really worry about large rodent teeth and claws causing damage as you are forced to manipulate the snake in unnatural positions to try to get it from the feeding tub back into the viv after feeding. Even when they are not full of rodent, you often here odd rumbles and gurgles as the internal organs move about when lifting a large snake off the ground, so moving them around when full of food is too risky for me.



At the end of the day, its each to their own. Whatever works for you is what you should do.

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