V confused Bearded Dragon Newbie - please help!

[smartin790]

Hello!

I am hoping to get a Bearded Dragon very soon and have been doing a lot of research on-line and have also been into my local ‘Reptile shops’. Although they were v helpful, I am now very confused – everyone has a different opinion!

We are going for a wooden 48x18x18 Viv (I know 48x24x24 would be better but due to the shape of our lounge we can’t go any deeper without blocking half a doorway!).

I understand about needing a heat gradient within the Viv but I’ve been given conflicting advice with regards to heating/lighting requirements at the warm end.

Shop 1 says I need 2 basking lights to get enough warmth into the Viv due to its size, plus a heating mat to sustain warmth overnight.

Shop 2 says I don’t need 2 lights and prob not a heating mat either as a wooden Viv would retain some of the heat overnight and says I should go for an all-in-one bulb which does UVA, UVB and heat (such as a Zoo-Med Power Sun)

I’m def liking the idea of the all-in-one bulbs for simplicity but when researching further I then read that you can’t you a thermostat on them so how can you avoid the Viv overheating?? I don’t want to cook the poor thing!!!

Sorry to go on but I obviously want to get it right and am v confused at the mo so any help/advice gratefully received!

Thankyou

[yummymummytothree]

Originally Posted by smartin790

Hello!

I am hoping to get a Bearded Dragon very soon and have been doing a lot of research on-line and have also been into my local ‘Reptile shops’. Although they were v helpful, I am now very confused – everyone has a different opinion!

We are going for a wooden 48x18x18 Viv (I know 48x24x24 would be better but due to the shape of our lounge we can’t go any deeper without blocking half a doorway!).

I understand about needing a heat gradient within the Viv but I’ve been given conflicting advice with regards to heating/lighting requirements at the warm end.

Shop 1 says I need 2 basking lights to get enough warmth into the Viv due to its size, plus a heating mat to sustain warmth overnight.

Shop 2 says I don’t need 2 lights and prob not a heating mat either as a wooden Viv would retain some of the heat overnight and says I should go for an all-in-one bulb which does UVA, UVB and heat (such as a Zoo-Med Power Sun)

I’m def liking the idea of the all-in-one bulbs for simplicity but when researching further I then read that you can’t you a thermostat on them so how can you avoid the Viv overheating?? I don’t want to cook the poor thing!!!

Sorry to go on but I obviously want to get it right and am v confused at the mo so any help/advice gratefully received!

Thankyou

Hi, i would go for one of the combi bulbs, secondly dont use a heat mat for bearded dragons just not a good idea, not sure why you have been told to have more than one hot spot seems rather wrong to me, a thermostat is needed so that as you said the viv doesnt overheat and the beardies dont overheat. hope that helps slightly

[Purple_D]

Originally Posted by yummymummytothree

Hi, i would go for one of the combi bulbs, secondly dont use a heat mat for bearded dragons just not a good idea, not sure why you have been told to have more than one hot spot seems rather wrong to me, a thermostat is needed so that as you said the viv doesnt overheat and the beardies dont overheat. hope that helps slightly

1, You can not use a dimming stat with a combi bulb.
2, Normal bulb type uv are not recomended for beardie vivs.
OP, use a spot light bulb for heating the viv and a tube type uv bulb for uv,around 36inch length and at least 12%uv,better if you get a reflector for it.
So long as your house doe's not drop below about 15c at night you will not need night time heat

[tomcannon]

I'm assuming yummymummy meant "wouldn't". I would agree not to opt for an all in one but purely because they don't offer enough uv over a spread area to recreate a wild uv index. As suggested with a 4ft viv you want the 3ft Arcadia T5, mount this in the hot side to create a photogradient, click here for more info.

You shouldn't need to offer night heat, between 10-18c is good in my opinion. If you do need to have night heat then you will need a ceramic heat emitter, also statted of course.

As has been said heat mats can be dangerous to BD's as they don't detect the heat from below so could be burnt from an malfunctioning heat mat or generated hotspot. They are also useless at increasing ambient temps so would only be of use if your dragon was sitting on it. High risk for little reward.

Unfortunately it is often the case that reptile shops give out misleading information. Its believed by some that it is often purposefully done in order to increase profits, either that being the initial purchase or on the chance that a customer will return to purchase the correct product once doing there own research. I can agree to this to an extent with some shops, however I imagine its more than likely purely a lack of specific knowledge of a certain species. This is why its always recommended to do your own research or speak to people that have specific first hand knowledge of said species, as you are. To be fair on the shops and the staff you can't always expect them all to know everything about every rep. I don't mean you specifically but us in general.

Hope this helps, feel free to PM me if you want further help at all.

[jools]

Welcome to RFUK and the wonderful world of beardies!

Unfortunately it can be difficult to know whos advice to trust but IMO Tomcannon is spot on.

[herper147]

Originally Posted by tomcannon

I'm assuming yummymummy meant "wouldn't". I would agree not to opt for an all in one but purely because they don't offer enough uv over a spread area to recreate a wild uv index. As suggested with a 4ft viv you want the 3ft Arcadia T5, mount this in the hot side to create a photogradient, click here for more info.

You shouldn't need to offer night heat, between 10-18c is good in my opinion. If you do need to have night heat then you will need a ceramic heat emitter, also statted of course.

As has been said heat mats can be dangerous to BD's as they don't detect the heat from below so could be burnt from an malfunctioning heat mat or generated hotspot. They are also useless at increasing ambient temps so would only be of use if your dragon was sitting on it. High risk for little reward.

Unfortunately it is often the case that reptile shops give out misleading information. Its believed by some that it is often purposefully done in order to increase profits, either that being the initial purchase or on the chance that a customer will return to purchase the correct product once doing there own research. I can agree to this to an extent with some shops, however I imagine its more than likely purely a lack of specific knowledge of a certain species. This is why its always recommended to do your own research or speak to people that have specific first hand knowledge of said species, as you are. To be fair on the shops and the staff you can't always expect them all to know everything about every rep. I don't mean you specifically but us in general.

Hope this helps, feel free to PM me if you want further help at all.

Spot on advice, follow this and you will be fine there is a lot of misleading information and for some reason people don't realise that even though they come from the desert it gets very cold at night. For me I would never use any combined bulb as they had massive problems when first brought and I would never trust them, always go with a tube UV, also not sure if its been mentioned but go with a 10% UV bulb or 12% never go lower than 10

[smartin790]

Thankyou all so much for your replies – it’s the first time I’ve ever actually posted on a forum anywhere so I’m well chuffed you’ve all taken the time to reply, thankyou!

Your posts have also confirmed my original set-up thinking with one basking light, separate UV, thermostat, no heating mat etc before I was confused with the need for 2 basking bulbs and then the option of a combined bulb.

I am sure I will have more questions in time but I know where to come now so thankyou for your help – I now feeling very excited again rather than a little (ok, very) lost!!

[ChazzieJo]

It's perfectly normal to feel confused with the amount of conflicting advice on offer! but yeah, as said before, all you'll need is a UV strip (go for the 12% T5 Arcadia), one basking spot set at around 40c on a thermostat, a couple of digital thermometers to monitor temps on the hot/cool side, substrate (I would avoid anything loose, such as sand/beech chips and opt for slate, vinyl, lino), decor and then any tools you'll need for feeding, feeding tongs, calcium, nutrobal (calcium dust with vitamins, it's great). Once you have the set up there's not much to it, just monitoring the temperatures. As somebody said above, you wont need overnight heating, they do just fine without it and I beleive it's far more natural to give them a temperature drop during night time, Good luck with your upcoming beardie!

[Rammy]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
I was in the same position as you only 2 weeks ago and, as everyone has said, its very confusing out there. My setup up is very similar to what you are thinking of. I have a 4ft x 18" x 18", one halogen heat bulb down one end above a log & rock for basking, microclimate thermostat to control the temp, and the Arcadia T5 12% (which is amazing! see my thread http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...l#post10952282)
My viv came with wood chippings so I have stuck with it for now, but this is yet another area of conflicting views - some say sand, others say not!
Good luck with your venture into the world of BDs and I look forward to sharing some ideas.

Dave

[smartin790]

Well, I've had a good morning and ordered the recommended Arcadia UV Desert kit and a Habistat Dimming Thermostat so feeling very excited. I've decided to buy bits seperately as the Bearded Dragon set up kit available at local reptile shop included a lot of bits I don't think I need now having received advice on the forum eg: heat mat, 2 basking lights etc.

I'm also going for kitchen paper at the mo as we are hoping to get a baby Beardie so I will no doubt be looking for more advice as he gets older - the great substrate debate!!!!

Thanks again for all your help