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Old 31-12-2013, 09:01 PM
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Wink i will stop ranting soon. rubs..

I realize I've maybe offended a few people with my views on snakes being put into seemingly small rubs. This mindset is just bothering me, a lot of people seem to be asking what the largest animal they can put into them is rather than doing the research on the chosen species and providing the right environment from there be it rub or otherwise. I see the side some argue that they 'can' live seemingly happily in cramped conditions with the very basics but surely making the viv beautiful and watching your animal enjoy it would be more rewarding? Then there are possible side effects like fatty deposits around organs, under developed muscle and in my opinion r.i from not the best heating? Its probably just me.

My bloodline is Scottish. 'freeeedom' and all that.

I'll stop ranting now.
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Old 31-12-2013, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by befxxx View Post
I realize I've maybe offended a few people with my views on snakes being put into seemingly small rubs. This mindset is just bothering me, a lot of people seem to be asking what the largest animal they can put into them is rather than doing the research on the chosen species and providing the right environment from there be it rub or otherwise. I see the side some argue that they 'can' live seemingly happily in cramped conditions with the very basics but surely making the viv beautiful and watching your animal enjoy it would be more rewarding? Then there are possible side effects like fatty deposits around organs, under developed muscle and in my opinion r.i from not the best heating? Its probably just me.

My bloodline is Scottish. 'freeeedom' and all that.

I'll stop ranting now.
I agree. I would only keep (and have only kept) young snakes in rubs. For me, the ONLY justification is if you have numerous snakes as part of a breeding project. Even then, not permanently.
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Old 31-12-2013, 09:08 PM
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I agree with this more or less, don't really see the point in aiming for the minimum required.
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Old 31-12-2013, 09:15 PM
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Cheers, im sure some snakes are fine in them providing they are the right sizes and heat and humidity can be maintained but I feel like for some people that isn't been taken into account. A lot of it seems to be that its cheap, easy to clean and saves space,which I worry about with new keepers and peoples tendancy to collect, this way of thinking makes that impulse a lot closer to reach and I believe snakes will be the ones to suffer x
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Old 31-12-2013, 09:21 PM
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Firstly. I am Scottish


Secondly I can see your point of view. Personally I wouldn't keep my snakes in rubs as I keep them as pets for my enjoyment so like to see them and I also love setting up their vivs to be colourful and visually pleasing to look at.

However. Thousands keep their snakes in rubs for breeding or space convenience. Is it wrong? No. Because that's what works for themselves and their snakes. As long as the snake is being cared for appropriately (correct size rubs etc) it doesn't matter to me - it's the way they choose to keep their snakes.

If people are asking questions on what they can out into a rub...then I am sorry but surely that counts as research... I for one like to ask questions for personal feedback if I am on the fence about something. But telling someone its wrong to keep them in rubs isn't my or you place...we could go round and round about pretty much ANY species of animal and how we as humans care for them, opinions will be different and that is fine. Does not mean it warrants a passive aggressive at rant at those checking/doing research on what to put in their rubs.


Hamsters - spend their whole lives trying to escape
Rabbits - we point them in hutches and indoor cages...they burrow in the wild
Birds - kept in cages where as some will keep in an Avery or some would never keep them
Fish - keep in small tanks...is that wrong?
Indoor cats
Dogs
Horses
Spiders

See where I am going with that

I do apologise for the long post...already on my way to a merry new year! I guess I am just a bit fed up with the same old jabs (not necessarily from you! Just saying) about vivs v rubs... Just because you don't do it doesn't make it wrong. Just makes it different. Posts like this will only deter people asking appropriate questions....sooooo, yeah. So lets all hug and have a good new year
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Old 31-12-2013, 09:28 PM
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Happy new year I don't mind so much if the rub or Viv is appropriate size, and needs are met, but it seems its more what an animal can survive in rather than what isbest for it. I'm sure a sloth would survive in a room with nothing but a bowl of water and a food source but the rspca would arrest anyone keeping one in that condition for cruelty. Its not the asking that bothers me, its the asking and not taking points into consideration, just hearing that it can be done and that being enough or having a box and wanting to know what could 'live' in it.

Also, high five for Scotland! X
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Old 31-12-2013, 09:43 PM
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A sloth! Haha that's a new reference

Although a snake can evidently grow and thrive in rubs and live 'happily' and healthily. The SSPCA wouldn't arrest and call it cruel to keep them like this.

A glance on the exotic class fields always makes me ponder the living conditions we provide these animals of all shapes, sizes and needs.

And sometimes makes me think...what right do we have to keep any species of animals so far from their natural habitats and freedom capabilities.

I think my (rather distracted/drunken) point here is... There will always be someone who won't like the way you keep your animals...cat, dog, snake, horse...sloth

That being said, I love my little zoo and I face criticism a lot being a dog groomer... I get called cruel for pampering my show poodle for two hours, dipping their fur in veggie dye, shaving them bald (how dare I remove the painful matts! ) etc so I have mellowed over the years to people's opinions on how I should care for my animals... I used to get all hulk raged on it
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Old 31-12-2013, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by befxxx View Post
I realize I've maybe offended a few people with my views on snakes being put into seemingly small rubs. This mindset is just bothering me, a lot of people seem to be asking what the largest animal they can put into them is rather than doing the research on the chosen species and providing the right environment from there be it rub or otherwise. I see the side some argue that they 'can' live seemingly happily in cramped conditions with the very basics but surely making the viv beautiful and watching your animal enjoy it would be more rewarding? Then there are possible side effects like fatty deposits around organs, under developed muscle and in my opinion r.i from not the best heating? Its probably just me.

My bloodline is Scottish. 'freeeedom' and all that.

I'll stop ranting now.
so can i ask you.....you think a viv a few inches/feet bigger is better?
allowing your snakes to travel 12inches further is better in some way?.........only asking! lol
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Old 31-12-2013, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian kerr View Post
so can i ask you.....you think a viv a few inches/feet bigger is better?
allowing your snakes to travel 12inches further is better in some way?.........only asking! lol
Erm yes.

A bigger enclosure is surely always preferable no matter what species is being housed.
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Old 31-12-2013, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mooselee View Post
I agree. I would only keep (and have only kept) young snakes in rubs. For me, the ONLY justification is if you have numerous snakes as part of a breeding project. Even then, not permanently.
I would not even say its ok if you have numerous for breeding projects, if they don't have the space or means to house them properly they should not have so many. Cruelty is not ok if you only don't do it permanently.
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