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  #551 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 09:33 AM
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It's no bloody wonder people are getting prosecuted and the hobby is under threat if this thread is in any way a representation of the hobby as a wider group. Nothing's going to change as long as people are bitching at each other. The vast majority of reptile keepers don't even know this thread exists and those that do to some extent can't join together and fight the APA. The APA will win as long as people in the hobby don't sort this bad feeling out and join together to come to some sort of plan. I don't think implying that those who have concerns that differ from what Chris is saying are somehow not genuine hobbyists is helping that, just as I don't think implying the FBH are at the centre of some sort of conspiracy is either. At some point groups who alienate enough people by not representing their members will fracture and have no power against the APA, just as those who don't join in won't get represented.

I know I'm not in any place to make any calls there as I am not a breeder/seller nor am I a member of the FBH/IHS (I haven't any need to be now I'm not in the hobby), but from reading this thread it seems to me that if their membership have concerns about the FBH's position then some sort of debate/voting and coming together is needed, and quickly. I thought it was meant to be the voice for them? You can't fight the APA if you're too busy fighting each other.
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  #552 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by KathyM View Post
It's no bloody wonder people are getting prosecuted and the hobby is under threat if this thread is in any way a representation of the hobby as a wider group. Nothing's going to change as long as people are bitching at each other. The vast majority of reptile keepers don't even know this thread exists and those that do to some extent can't join together and fight the APA. The APA will win as long as people in the hobby don't sort this bad feeling out and join together to come to some sort of plan. I don't think implying that those who have concerns that differ from what Chris is saying are somehow not genuine hobbyists is helping that, just as I don't think implying the FBH are at the centre of some sort of conspiracy is either. At some point groups who alienate enough people by not representing their members will fracture and have no power against the APA, just as those who don't join in won't get represented.

I know I'm not in any place to make any calls there as I am not a breeder/seller nor am I a member of the FBH/IHS (I haven't any need to be now I'm not in the hobby), but from reading this thread it seems to me that if their membership have concerns about the FBH's position then some sort of debate/voting and coming together is needed, and quickly. I thought it was meant to be the voice for them? You can't fight the APA if you're too busy fighting each other.
moreso, those who call themselves hobbyists, but stick up for the APA.
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  #553 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by KathyM View Post
It's no bloody wonder people are getting prosecuted and the hobby is under threat if this thread is in any way a representation of the hobby as a wider group. Nothing's going to change as long as people are bitching at each other. The vast majority of reptile keepers don't even know this thread exists and those that do to some extent can't join together and fight the APA. The APA will win as long as people in the hobby don't sort this bad feeling out and join together to come to some sort of plan. I don't think implying that those who have concerns that differ from what Chris is saying are somehow not genuine hobbyists is helping that, just as I don't think implying the FBH are at the centre of some sort of conspiracy is either. At some point groups who alienate enough people by not representing their members will fracture and have no power against the APA, just as those who don't join in won't get represented.

I know I'm not in any place to make any calls there as I am not a breeder/seller nor am I a member of the FBH/IHS (I haven't any need to be now I'm not in the hobby), but from reading this thread it seems to me that if their membership have concerns about the FBH's position then some sort of debate/voting and coming together is needed, and quickly. I thought it was meant to be the voice for them? You can't fight the APA if you're too busy fighting each other.
Bravo
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  #554 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KathyM View Post
It's no bloody wonder people are getting prosecuted and the hobby is under threat if this thread is in any way a representation of the hobby as a wider group. Nothing's going to change as long as people are bitching at each other. The vast majority of reptile keepers don't even know this thread exists and those that do to some extent can't join together and fight the APA. The APA will win as long as people in the hobby don't sort this bad feeling out and join together to come to some sort of plan. I don't think implying that those who have concerns that differ from what Chris is saying are somehow not genuine hobbyists is helping that, just as I don't think implying the FBH are at the centre of some sort of conspiracy is either. At some point groups who alienate enough people by not representing their members will fracture and have no power against the APA, just as those who don't join in won't get represented.

I know I'm not in any place to make any calls there as I am not a breeder/seller nor am I a member of the FBH/IHS (I haven't any need to be now I'm not in the hobby), but from reading this thread it seems to me that if their membership have concerns about the FBH's position then some sort of debate/voting and coming together is needed, and quickly. I thought it was meant to be the voice for them? You can't fight the APA if you're too busy fighting each other.
Some people will line up to attack the FBH on this forum, telling the world how they're guilty of this that and what ever whilst doing absolute sod all to benefit the hobby themselves.

And whilst doing that the FBH will continue fighting the APA in the courts where the real fight is, not here on RFUK.

Another well known forum has a far more informed and serious discussion going on this subject.
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  #555 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mynki View Post
Some people will line up to attack the FBH on this forum, telling the world how they're guilty of this that and what ever whilst doing absolute sod all to benefit the hobby themselves.
I'm sure there are people who are intent on a bit of stirring, that was partly my point. However as an outsider now looking in, what I see is a lot of tit for tat personal crap that is getting in the way and not all of it from the FBH 'haters', for want of a better term. As a public figurehead for a group supposedly promoting the hobby I cringed at some of Chris's comments as much as I cringed at others.


Quote:
Another well known forum has a far more informed and serious discussion going on this subject.
That's lovely but why post on a board if you don't want the debate that goes with it? I've seen valid questions washed over (albeit getting some answers eventually, with a seemingly obligatory bitchy put down in many) and now we're going to add not only this tit for tat but a bit of forum rivalry? If that's not what you're trying to say forgive me as I am a member of both forums and not really into it all myself, this is just someone on the outside looking in. Personal bitching and putting people down doesn't look like a good way forward for either 'side'. Obviously the APA managed to pull together or they'd never have got this far. No doubt they're having a field day with the amount of sniping in this hobby as it makes their job so much easier.
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  #556 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KathyM View Post
I'm sure there are people who are intent on a bit of stirring, that was partly my point. However as an outsider now looking in, what I see is a lot of tit for tat personal crap that is getting in the way and not all of it from the FBH 'haters', for want of a better term. As a public figurehead for a group supposedly promoting the hobby I cringed at some of Chris's comments as much as I cringed at others.




That's lovely but why post on a board if you don't want the debate that goes with it? I've seen valid questions washed over (albeit getting some answers eventually, with a seemingly obligatory bitchy put down in many) and now we're going to add not only this tit for tat but a bit of forum rivalry? If that's not what you're trying to say forgive me as I am a member of both forums and not really into it all myself, this is just someone on the outside looking in. Personal bitching and putting people down doesn't look like a good way forward for either 'side'. Obviously the APA managed to pull together or they'd never have got this far. No doubt they're having a field day with the amount of sniping in this hobby as it makes their job so much easier.
You are indeed wrong. And forgiven...

Both forums are mentioned on both forums, so there is no rivalry as far as I'm concerned. The fact remains though, there is a much better discussion on this particular topic going on elsewhere. In the sense that the other thread contains more factual information and less squabling.

I very much doubt APA give a toss about all of the argueing, they're far too organised and driven to concernt themselves with petty squabbles to be honest. They'll only be interested in the FBH members and tradersselling at shows, why waste time reading the random posts from a Random Joe keeper?

What amazes me is the fact that the fundraising for an appeal against Mr Astles conviction which has been going on for some time has hardly got a mention on the forums. I would have expected SWARE and CREAKS to have organised stickied threads on all forums pointing to it, an RFUK auction and a whole host of other fund raising ideas to try and mount a legal challenge. Instead, nowt, nothing...
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  #557 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 03:59 PM
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No more squabbling, personal digs or swearing or it'll be infraction city for all!
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  #558 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 04:02 PM
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As if by magic.

If you can keep the thread on topic dont post.
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  #559 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyM View Post
It's no bloody wonder people are getting prosecuted and the hobby is under threat if this thread is in any way a representation of the hobby as a wider group. Nothing's going to change as long as people are bitching at each other. The vast majority of reptile keepers don't even know this thread exists and those that do to some extent can't join together and fight the APA. The APA will win as long as people in the hobby don't sort this bad feeling out and join together to come to some sort of plan. I don't think implying that those who have concerns that differ from what Chris is saying are somehow not genuine hobbyists is helping that, just as I don't think implying the FBH are at the centre of some sort of conspiracy is either. At some point groups who alienate enough people by not representing their members will fracture and have no power against the APA, just as those who don't join in won't get represented.

I know I'm not in any place to make any calls there as I am not a breeder/seller nor am I a member of the FBH/IHS (I haven't any need to be now I'm not in the hobby), but from reading this thread it seems to me that if their membership have concerns about the FBH's position then some sort of debate/voting and coming together is needed, and quickly. I thought it was meant to be the voice for them? You can't fight the APA if you're too busy fighting each other.
Very well said Kathy
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  #560 (permalink)  
Old 16-05-2014, 04:12 PM
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For those happy to criticise the F. B. H. and all that its actions you are completely free to set up your own club or society and then a federation to oversee the clubs. that would be the way forward for those who dont like the current situation, or join an club and be the clubs F.B.H. representative.

Most people seem to think that the shows are Chris` personal plaything ,they are not. He is chairperson of the F.B.H. All amendments to shows are made by a committee and then sent to the F.B.H. solicitor and barrister for their comments. I would suggest that these professional people have a far greater idea of the laws than most people on here. If the answers were as simple as some people suggest they would have been implemented by the F.B.H. legal team. The show rules are constantly being tweaked and changed, and I am sure that there will be some changes for this years shows.
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