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  #211 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rickpellen View Post
Even 8 years ago, these werent reptile shop material. When i aquired my first ones i had to travel all over the place. The only persons really breeding with regularity were david richards and zoo-logic. That was really why i set about building up a goup of them.....there wasnt many around....no-one nearby bred them so i would always have an outlet for excess.....and after i got my first one (which i paid £250 for a juvenile as it was the only one id ever seen!) i realised there wasnt really any other species that were as fun to work with.
You were looking in the wrong places Rick as they were a regular staple at J&G Animals in Streatham from around 20 years ago until it's closure. Currently they are sometimes available at Charlton a reptiles in London as they have a large adult breeding pair in the shop (at least last find I went a year ago). What you find is that there are often breeders who do not sell on forums or Internet and just sell to the trade which is why they can often to appear as available as they really are.
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  #212 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2014, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rickpellen View Post
The problem is if you breed something which isnt pet shop fodder yet its hard to know whether people will want it. Case in point. I took an excess korean rat from my 2.2 group to donny earlier in the year, and nly 2 people looked twice at it! An active, good feeding, tame, colubrid (with morphs too) that doesnt take up too much space and needs no heat in a warm house. But will it be an animal that people want to keep..... id like to think so, but probably not.
I'd like one! If only I could convince the other half that we have room for more...
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  #213 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by MoreliaUK View Post
There is a shop in London who have a male children's Python called Charlton reptiles. They have had it for at least three years now.
Thanks for the info

Another shop I'd never have heard of
I don't know anyone that owns any snakes apart from the guys that work in the local reptile shop, I have to rely on classifieds and emailing folk.

thanks again
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  #214 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by loxocemus View Post
iv written before somewhere how i think fwc's share more than a few of the indigo's attributes, and i still think its true. i was lucky enough to own some of the first fwc's in the uk from the late dave lester. i can still remember when i got them from the amtrak guy (it was a loong time ago) and i thought jesus christ those are some chunky babys and then i saw their little baby hood and i thought oh yes ur for me alright

i found them to be similar in both temps, food variety and alertness, and also cage size, if u keep an adult indigo in a small cage it becomes a mindless shiny mouth, very introverted and quick to stress, i found an adult fwc in a small cage becomes quick to revert to its default of hyperventilating fear and however that specimen chooses to deal with that emotional state, usually a blur of brown, hood and tail smack.

but in a well setup large cage i found they would peek out of their hiding place and curiously watch any disturbance and when that curiosity overcame their nerves there would be some kind of interaction, of course if there was food present there would be a very rapid interesting reaction

the main difference between the the two, fwc and indigo's, is that fwcs are quite guarded on how much their prepared to open themselves up to their keeper, they have a limit, which most specimens are very very reticent in crossing, this limits the complexity of interactions possible between keeper and kept. indigos on the other hand are much more open to interactions with their keeper because they don't default to instinct very easily unless u push too far too fast or their still immature.

i believe indigos grow emotionally as they grow physically, a baby indigo is nothing special (other than gorgeous) their wiggly fearful and quick to bolt just like any colubrid but as they grow "under good care" they undergo something, i dont know how to explain it, around 3yrs or so u notice one day ur indigo is right by ur ear watching u as ur cleaning up its toxic spill, one day it plonks its head in ur hand when u open its cage and its not for food, as ur fingers aren't in its mouth . then u notice they like tickled under their chin and on their cheeks, sometime they will give u cramps trying wait them out and get disinterested, so u sit on the floor and their cage is open and ur stroking an indigo that's probably fallen asleep.

this change they undergo i suppose u can call it trust, they reach some basic conclusion or reptilian version of said description that u, their keeper, who they have known all their lives and have always treated them well, given them food and clean cold water is something that can be trusted, not only that ur not a danger, that's something earlier, but ur genuinely something to be both interested in and interacted with and that's what makes indigo's special.

do i think indigos are more "intelligent" than other large snakes, i i would be amazed if this was so, but their behavioral model just happens to be a good fit to a caring and open keeper. and this raises a "very" scary thought. if others species are just like indigos but just don't show it very obviously by any behavior we can recognize as such then what do they go thru in their empty tub, a bowl as their landscape and a thrown rat as interaction.

snakes have expressionless emotionless faces, they invite conclusions of dumb purely instinctive creatures, but if the indigos complexity is the norm and not the exception then what is box life with no stimulation like for species kept under those conditions....

rgds
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That's the best post I've read regarding indigos.
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  #215 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2014, 05:53 PM
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Drymarchon corais, you know the really angry ones? Not my video but one of my favorite ones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhGKxXMs4rQ
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old 13-10-2014, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AilsaM View Post
Indeed.

I'll just be happy if, eventually, I can find a mate for my little Red Milk, am really wanting to try breeding these in the future esp as they're not commonly kept at all, which is the main reason I want to try and breed them, the lass I got them from lost her female so she wont be breeding them again, think she's also on the look out for a pair.

You'll get people who swear blind by breeders outside the UK - USA for example and I'll use Banana Royals and Boas as an example, plenty plenty breeders of good quality boas & also good well known royals breeders producing Banana Royals up here, I have a local lass near me who produces them but Banana Royals aren't really my cup of tea tbh. Just using these as examples.

i have a pair of red milks one visual hypo and one normal het... may pair next year

However my passion is Elaphe carinata, took me a long time to locate and acquire the 10 i now have and i am lucky enough to have 3 colour variants within my group. I have people messaging daily looking to purchase youngsters etc but when i do have some available no one wants them, or wants them dirt cheap! I have kept many species over the years, a lot of which have not been 'common place', and some of them were easier to come by than others. I am currently in the process of trying to track down axanthic carinata, plus a pair of eastern indigos. I have had my eye on them for many years and nothing would please me more than to eventually have large, naturalistic set-ups for all my carinata, goddesses and the fwcs.

recently i have narrowed down my collection of animals considerably with ultimate aims to achieving this goal (hence my prolonged time away from the forums), it will take some time to locate the animals in question, but i know that when i do it will be worth all the hard work.
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  #217 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2014, 07:48 PM
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Nothing but royals in the snake classifieds
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  #218 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2014, 07:54 PM
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Wish there was lack of choice as some b'stArd has posted photos of available pygmy pythons and i want yet i should not want to want
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  #219 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2014, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sean_mac View Post
Nothing but royals in the snake classifieds
Yes, you'd think that it might be advisable to give them their own classifieds section wouldn't you? It would make life easier for everyone.
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  #220 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2014, 08:00 PM
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No keep all of the snakes together in the classifieds as it makes it harder to find the hidden gems amongst the royals and there is therefore less chance of me spending any money
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