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Old 30-12-2016, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wilkinss77 View Post
*That might not necessarily be an old wives' tale in some species- Getula complex kings for example, can grow up very snappy if not handled regularly from an early age. Some say the same for certain BCI locales too.
Having bred ALL the old subspecies of the old getulus-complex Kings I can earnestly say they don't necessarily grow up snappy if not handled. My opinion is that with Kings people mistake food-oriented bites for defensiveness. They are actually often easier to handle than rat snakes (Kings tend to curl around your wrist or arm, Rat snakes usually try to go their own way and don't appreciate being restrained).

Wild Cali Kings also tend to be rather docile when handled.

Some subspecies/ species (such as nigra) are naturally more bity than others, but handling/ not handling them does not change that in my experience.
Then you have Grey-Bandeds, Thayer's, San Luis Potosi etc. which are docile as heck.

Last edited by Thrasops; 30-12-2016 at 04:10 AM..
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 30-12-2016, 10:39 PM
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i was going to say iv had wc species that are naturally docile, this isn't quite true, it's more accurate to say iv had wc whose evolutionary response to stress is not overt "aggression" or "defensive behavior", whether that be biting or doing the live wire fandango, this gives the impression their docile when in fact inside im sure they are freaking out as much as the bullsnake making its huge display for all to see.

handling and its effects are hard to quantify, it depends on


specimen (as important as species)

handler skill or more accurately intuitiveness?

the purpose of the handling interaction (is it A to B or handling purely for handling's sake)

the handler's opinion on what he's seeing, the connections he makes from this.

this is why u can get two very experienced keepers express polar opposite opinions when it comes to handling and its effects on their animals.

for example iv seen people handle fwc's very badly and need a hook to remain in control, whereas iv handled the same animal without a hook and still had control, the only thing i feared was id get pooped on. few snakes make their emotions more obvious than fwc's, that's why it pains me so much to see them used as psuedo hots owned purely so a hook can be used on an animal that will react defensively. fwc's can be raised to be very steady animals, but it takes the right keeper as much as the right animal.

iv had a lot of experience with couperi of different ages sexes and acquiring them at different stages in their life, so a mix of care methods in their "upbringing". iv had couperi that i can only describe as traumatised that were a lot of work just to get them to tolerate my hand in their eyeline without withdrawal. but iv also raised couperi that knew me well and cared little what i did in their caging while they watched, they could retreat, flee in panic, withdraw to a hide yada yada but they didn't, adults i raised from neonates would get in the way of simple maintenance sometimes with just their curiosity, like a puppy round ur feet, changing a water bowl often turned into a meet and greet.

some species and specimens are more capable, actually willing may be more accurate, some species and specimens are more willing and accepting of interaction than others, for some u hold no interest or ur a source of fear that cant be overcome no matter what, for others, with the right keeper, u are a source of curiosity, a flare in their dull monotonous captive life, and its in those animals that this curiosity should be nourished in any way possible.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Last edited by loxocemus; 30-12-2016 at 10:44 PM..
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