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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:42 PM
Far2lively's Avatar
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Default First time attempt at breeding!

So I've decided to try and breed my male dwarf citron tiger relic to a newly purchased 3200gram female Royal.

Just wanted to know the ins and outs of breeding, any pointers or helpful tips would be great, anything to maximise the likelyness of me being successful in this project.

Look forward to reading any input!

Thanks!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:05 PM
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these are the scenarios

the retic will freak out and attack the ball

the ball will freak out and attack the retic

they will both freak out and it will be a freak out circus ul have to break up

and this is the most likely, they will ignore each other, their not daft they know their not the same.

and with ur retic u have a limited window, the larger he gets the less likely its going to happen.

hybrids are produced in two ways

one, a freak pairing that happens when two animals are housed together often from space issues, they get on for quite a while, one day babies/eggs, its spontaneous and a very very rare occurrence despite the amount of mismatched animals housed together around the globe.

two and the most successful, it occurs in large collections with multiple pairs of each species, same species pairs are introduced things go well, the ol' switcharoo with ur other species, often with another species shed skin rubbed on her, bingo a very small chance of babies/eggs.

the multiple pairs of each species allows for animals that just don't like each other, animals at just the right place in their season-both male and females.

male x female does not always = babies/eggs in regular breedings, in hybrid breedings the normal methods and conditions are almost always not enough to make it happen. that's why there's not frankenstein snakes everywhere, if it was easy they would be everywhere (in corn type/subsp crossings, their basically all cousins that do it where their ranges cross anyway, goddamn rednecks )

some of the first people that made jungle corns taped the female cali's mouths shut so she wouldn't eat the corn, other than being just goddamn awful it shows u the lengths people have gone to to make a hybrid, because 99.99% of the time ul get a fist fight or complete disregard for each other.

all that being said i wish u luck, obviously u know observation is key, cycle them, watch them like a hawk, any sign of aggression its over, u split them, that's it.

the ones that were produced in the past were produced in a huge collection, of both balls and retics, and he choose not to pursue the project any further, read into that what u will.

the ball genetics and other species genetics often produce a very ill tempered cross, the woma x ball and angolan x ball are famous for their very very short temper, as are the blood x ball (but not as bad), yet all those species involved are normally placid, so again read into that what u will. all ball hybrids seem to take on the other parents size gene for the most part, the burm ball ,retic ball blood ball all grew significantly larger than a regular ball.

so ask urself this, do u want a hybrid that will be of significant size, bad tempered and likely if not infertile then problematic in the f2 (this is not to say that hybrids are as a rule infertile their not, far from it, but python hybrids, especially involving burms and retics have fertility issues, its just the way it is), this may not be what u get, they could be calm smaller fertile bunnys, but that's unlikely, ur going to get a quirk, if ur fine with that go for it. the good thing about using a female ball is the clutch will be small and that will be easier in all the ways u can think of, from selling to housing etc.

a myth about hybrids is somehow the crossing affects the females physical reproduction, it does not, if the female is the ball the eggs hatch under ball conditions, if the female is the retic they hatch under retic conditions, its just sperm, not kryptonite , the second myth is how do u care for a hybrid of vastly different parent species, hybrids are hardy, incredibly hardy actually, it does not take much to figure out what they want and how to provide it, because when it comes down to it, captive care is, at its core, the same across the spectrum, u provide heat, they heat up and leave once they had enough, same with all other parameters, making ur hybrid is the hard part, their care is the easy part.

rgds and good luck
ed
ps educate urself on the how to's of breeding of pure reticulated pythons, and pure ball pythons, because ul need those 101 basics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Far2lively View Post
So I've decided to try and breed my male dwarf citron tiger relic to a newly purchased 3200gram female Royal.

Just wanted to know the ins and outs of breeding, any pointers or helpful tips would be great, anything to maximise the likelyness of me being successful in this project.

Look forward to reading any input!

Thanks!
Paul F and HLJ like this.
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Last edited by loxocemus; 03-07-2017 at 11:20 PM..
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:30 PM
Far2lively's Avatar
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loxocemus View Post
these are the scenarios

the retic will freak out and attack the ball

the ball will freak out and attack the retic

they will both freak out and it will be a freak out circus ul have to break up

and this is the most likely, they will ignore each other, their not daft they know their not the same.

and with ur retic u have a limited window, the larger he gets the less likely its going to happen.

hybrids are produced in two ways

one, a freak pairing that happens when two animals are housed together often from space issues, they get on for quite a while, one day babies/eggs, its spontaneous and a very very rare occurrence despite the amount of mismatched animals housed together around the globe.

two and the most successful, it occurs in large collections with multiple pairs of each species, same species pairs are introduced things go well, the ol' switcharoo with ur other species, often with another species shed skin rubbed on her, bingo a very small chance of babies/eggs.

the multiple pairs of each species allows for animals that just don't like each other, animals at just the right place in their season-both male and females.

male x female does not always = babies/eggs in regular breedings, in hybrid breedings the normal methods and conditions are almost always not enough to make it happen. that's why there's not frankenstein snakes everywhere, if it was easy they would be everywhere (in corn type/subsp crossings, their basically all cousins that do it where their ranges cross anyway, goddamn rednecks )

some of the first people that made jungle corns taped the female cali's mouths shut so she wouldn't eat the corn, other than being just goddamn awful it shows u the lengths people have gone to to make a hybrid, because 99.99% of the time ul get a fist fight or complete disregard for each other.

all that being said i wish u luck, obviously u know observation is key, cycle them, watch them like a hawk, any sign of aggression its over, u split them, that's it.

the ones that were produced in the past were produced in a huge collection, of both balls and retics, and he choose not to pursue the project any further, read into that what u will.

the ball genetics and other species genetics often produce a very ill tempered cross, the woma x ball and angolan x ball are famous for their very very short temper, as are the blood x ball (but not as bad), yet all those species involved are normally placid, so again read into that what u will. all ball hybrids seem to take on the other parents size gene for the most part, the burm ball ,retic ball blood ball all grew significantly larger than a regular ball.

so ask urself this, do u want a hybrid that will be of significant size, bad tempered and likely if not infertile then problematic in the f2 (this is not to say that hybrids are as a rule infertile their not, far from it, but python hybrids, especially involving burms and retics have fertility issues, its just the way it is), this may not be what u get, they could be calm smaller fertile bunnys, but that's unlikely, ur going to get a quirk, if ur fine with that go for it. the good thing about using a female ball is the clutch will be small and that will be easier in all the ways u can think of, from selling to housing etc.

a myth about hybrids is somehow the crossing affects the females physical reproduction, it does not, if the female is the ball the eggs hatch under ball conditions, if the female is the retic they hatch under retic conditions, its just sperm, not kryptonite , the second myth is how do u care for a hybrid of vastly different parent species, hybrids are hardy, incredibly hardy actually, it does not take much to figure out what they want and how to provide it, because when it comes down to it, captive care is, at its core, the same across the spectrum, u provide heat, they heat up and leave once they had enough, same with all other parameters, making ur hybrid is the hard part, their care is the easy part.

rgds and good luck
ed
ps educate urself on the how to's of breeding of pure reticulated pythons, and pure ball pythons, because ul need those 101 basics


Thanks a lot for the input, obviously I do have a lot of research to before I go along with this.

Would you say getting more female balls would increase the chances of a pair up?

The retic is around 7 ft and 3 years old if that matters at all?

I suppose the main reason I'm doing it is to see what the outcome is, what colours and patterns are produced and just a general interest.

Again thanks for the input it's much appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Follow me on Twitter @SpencerVmoss and Instagram SpencerVMoss
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:44 PM
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crikey 7ft, thats not in ur favour, more females will increase ur chances absolutely, as among a bunch ul get a nympho regius and she's ur winner

but they have to be BIG females otherwise just the males sheer size intimidation will stop things before they even start.

rgds
ed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Far2lively View Post
Thanks a lot for the input, obviously I do have a lot of research to before I go along with this.

Would you say getting more female balls would increase the chances of a pair up?

The retic is around 7 ft and 3 years old if that matters at all?

I suppose the main reason I'm doing it is to see what the outcome is, what colours and patterns are produced and just a general interest.

Again thanks for the input it's much appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:57 PM
loxocemus's Avatar
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Location: Scotland
Posts: 8,014
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hybrids involving different species sizes, especially in boids, are done using very young males, like oddly young, male boids (some species, not all, but burms retics balls common boas are all very young male breeders) are ready to rumble waaay smaller than people think, i believe someone got a clutch from a 6 month old male ball (or was it 4mths?), morph breeders, no patience

rgds
ed
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Last edited by loxocemus; 04-07-2017 at 12:26 AM..
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:38 AM
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Location: Lincoln
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loxocemus View Post
hybrids involving different species sizes, especially in boids, are done using very young males, like oddly young, male boids (some species, not all, but burms retics balls common boas are all very young male breeders) are ready to rumble waaay smaller than people think, i believe someone got a clutch from a 6 month old male ball (or was it 4mths?), morph breeders, no patience

rgds
ed
Think you've been trolled Ed.

If it is serious what you would need to do is put a male and female Royal in together, pair them as if you wanted to breed royals.
Pair the retic with a female retic to get him in breeding mode.
When the female Royal is on the cusp of ovulation pull the male Royal and add the male retic.
Will help if you have ultrasound equipment. It's unlikely you'll be successful as the retic sperm will die off quickly. If you do get eggs it's unlikely they will survive incubation.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:38 AM
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Hybrids are a bit like Marmite. Some love them and some loath them.
Personally, the way the hobby has gone, I genuinely believe you will have no problems what so ever selling the offspring. You may even make quite a few quid into the bargain.
But, if the offspring are plain, and bad tempered, are you prepared to keep two or three of them for life?
Or kill them?

I'm not trying to put you off in the slightest (I am in the "anti" camp, I hold my hands up) but am just opening your mind to the possibility that they might not fly out of the door like you might expect a high end morph to do.
Then again, they could be the next big thing. That's the gamble.

I wish you well either way.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
Hybrids are a bit like Marmite. Some love them and some loath them.
Personally, the way the hobby has gone, I genuinely believe you will have no problems what so ever selling the offspring. You may even make quite a few quid into the bargain.
But, if the offspring are plain, and bad tempered, are you prepared to keep two or three of them for life?
Or kill them?

I'm not trying to put you off in the slightest (I am in the "anti" camp, I hold my hands up) but am just opening your mind to the possibility that they might not fly out of the door like you might expect a high end morph to do.
Then again, they could be the next big thing. That's the gamble.

I wish you well either way.
If successful, there is also the danger of polluting the gene pool of either or both species by those who who buy the offspring & breed from them as per the corn/ratsnake debacle.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:13 AM
loxocemus's Avatar
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trolled as in retic x ball? it already been done, or the OP actually doing the project?

rgds
ed
ps im sure a golden child was used as the male, the progeny were dark, quite interesting actually

the collection method of making hybrids, they have a bunch of snakes and they think why not

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuG View Post
Think you've been trolled Ed.

If it is serious what you would need to do is put a male and female Royal in together, pair them as if you wanted to breed royals.
Pair the retic with a female retic to get him in breeding mode.
When the female Royal is on the cusp of ovulation pull the male Royal and add the male retic.

Will help if you have ultrasound equipment. It's unlikely you'll be successful as the retic sperm will die off quickly. If you do get eggs it's unlikely they will survive incubation.
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Last edited by loxocemus; 04-07-2017 at 02:21 AM..
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:21 AM
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there's no chance of accidentally buying something its not if that's what u mean, their clearly not either, they look nothing like a ball and sort of resemble a gimp retic that hatched out not quite right.

plus their likely jaffas

rgds
ed

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinss77 View Post
If successful, there is also the danger of polluting the gene pool of either or both species by those who who buy the offspring & breed from them as per the corn/ratsnake debacle.
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
Reply With Quote
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