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My Snake and Heating Queries!

2K views 27 replies 5 participants last post by  Malc 
#1 · (Edited)
After searching high and low for a corn snake breeder with some attractive looking hatchlings, I've found my new baby all the way in Reading :lol: and the reptile courier will be bringing him home sometime October :D I'm so excited and think he is absolutely gorgeous! I'm not savvy on the morphs, patterns and colour names (I want to try and learn a little more about this) but the breeder has said he is a Cinder poss het hypo.



I just had some quick queries about heating. At the moment I have an on/off stat with my ceramic- which works fine and has a drop allowance. I can't afford a pulse stat until my next payday (24th October) so will this be okay to set at 30c with a drop allowance of 3c for the time being... I used to have it set at 25c for my pygmy hedgehog and it would only click on and off every few hours, so I'm hoping it won't blow the bulb or bulb or anything.

I've also stuck the probe down to the bottom with some blue-tac and tried to not cover it with too much substrate underneath the lamp. If it does happen to get covered with substrate, will this affect the temperature much? The floor of the Viv which is 1150mm x 610mm and is covered by 2L of aspen substrate so I can't imagine it will absolutely smother the probe?

One more thing!! I'm struggling to think of a name for my corn. I love weird names, my pygmy hedgehog was called "Wigglemunch" :lol:... When I first mentioned getting a corn snake, I had this corny idea (no pun intended) to call him "Cornelius" :lol: but I've also started considering "Cinder" for obvious reasons. Never realised how tricky it would be naming a snake!!
 
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#2 ·
After searching high and low for a corn snake breeder with some attractive looking hatchlings, I've found my new baby all the way in Reading :lol: and the reptile courier will be bringing him home sometime October :D I'm so excited and think he is absolutely gorgeous! I'm not savvy on the morphs, patterns and colour names (I want to try and learn a little more about this) but the breeder has said he is a Cinder poss het hypo.

image

I just had some quick queries about heating. At the moment I have an on/off stat with my ceramic- which works fine and has a drop allowance. I can't afford a pulse stat until my next payday (24th October) so will this be okay to set at 30c with a drop allowance of 3c for the time being... I used to have it set at 25c for my pygmy hedgehog and it would only click on and off every few hours, so I'm hoping it won't blow the bulb or bulb or anything.

I've also stuck the probe down to the bottom with some blue-tac and tried to not cover it with too much substrate underneath the lamp. If it does happen to get covered with substrate, will this affect the temperature much? The floor of the Viv which is 1150mm x 610mm and is covered by 2L of aspen substrate so I can't imagine it will absolutely smother the probe?
I would simply allow the probe to dangle 1/2'' or so above the substrate. Put the ceramic on a timer to go off at night- corns like a day/night temp cycle, & don't really need heat at night unless the room gets real cold.
 
#3 ·
I would simply allow the probe to dangle 1/2'' or so above the substrate. Put the ceramic on a timer to go off at night- corns like a day/night temp cycle, & don't really need heat at night unless the room gets real cold.
Okay, I'll just keep an eye on it every so often to make sure the snake doesn't move / cover it with the aspen :lol:

I've had some discussions around day / night temperatures on here before- when I get a pulse stat I fully intend to purchase one with a day / night setting so that I can reduce the temperature at night. Whilst I have an on/off I don't want to risk turning it off as I have two outside walls to my bedroom- so consequently, at night and in winter, it is the coldest room in the house.

I also read a sticky somewhere about hatchlings generally being okay with a 'set' temperature and that the day/night applies more to 'adults'.

This is something I'm definitely going to invest in immediately though as soon as I get the money :) Thank you!
 
#5 ·
It's a small blob inside the viv just keeping the probe in position under the lamp beneath the substrate. I don't know another way to keep the snake from moving it otherwise and I don't fancy having to re-position it all the time. I was told not to use tape but that tac wouldn't stick to the snake and hurt it (it only stuck when firmly pressed against the bottom)
 
#6 ·
I'd have thought a corn could dislodge a probe fixed only by blu tac fairly easily when adult (so not an issue for you for a wee while yet). I could be wrong about that, but it doesn't sound all that secure.

I would just let the probe protrude into the viv through a hole you've drilled a little bit above substrate level, under where the ceramic is, by a couple of inches and fix it very securely from the outside. It's fine if it is a little bit flexible within a couple of inches when it's in there.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well this is the issue- I haven't drilled a hole, I'm using the snake proof vents at the back of the vivarium which allows for the wires to running through the back without drilling holes, which mean the wire is across the floor of the viv under the substrate. So it's likely that it will get moved about more than a couple of inches if I don't secure it with something from the inside. I didn't really want to be drilling holes into my vivarium, especially into the bottom as I will get spillage into the cabinet it's attached to. Isn't there anyway I can just do this from the inside? Even if I have to use aqua sealant or something. I just don't want more holes :?


The vent in the middle at the bottom is where the probe is coming through
 
#9 ·
I just had some quick queries about heating. At the moment I have an on/off stat with my ceramic- which works fine and has a drop allowance. I can't afford a pulse stat until my next payday (24th October) so will this be okay to set at 30c with a drop allowance of 3c for the time being... I used to have it set at 25c for my pygmy hedgehog and it would only click on and off every few hours, so I'm hoping it won't blow the bulb or bulb or anything.

I've also stuck the probe down to the bottom with some blue-tac and tried to not cover it with too much substrate underneath the lamp. If it does happen to get covered with substrate, will this affect the temperature much? The floor of the Viv which is 1150mm x 610mm and is covered by 2L of aspen substrate so I can't imagine it will absolutely smother the probe?
An on/off stat is not ideal for a ceramic as it will cause a wide swing in temperatures, but as you are upgrading to a pulse stat shortly we'll let you off ;-)

When you get your new stat, drill a hole in the rear of the vivarium, mid distance between the substrate and the base of the heater. Feed the probe through from the back so that just the last 2" of the probe is sticking out, and then either secure the cable using cable cleats (the plastic hook shaped thing with a nail) or fill the hole around the cable with aquarium grade silicone sealant. The snake needs to be kept out of the viv for 24 - 36 hours whilst it cures to be on the safe side, just ensure that you do this three or four days after a feed. It will be fine in a RUB in a normal living room environment (we've not had our heating on and its currently 24c in the lounge which would be fine for 24 hrs).

Then invest in a laser IR temperature gun, which can be had for less than £10. Use this to take readings of the substrate below the heater as you adjust the controls, and set the desired hot spot temperature correctly rather than rely on whatever the thermostat is reading, which as it will be closer to the heater will be higher than the substrate temperature.
 
#10 ·
There are vents at the top of the vivarium as well (also snake proof with access for cables) instead of drilling holes could I not just feed the probe through the vent and dangle it down to where you said to place the probe; midway between the substrate and the base of the heater. The vent is central to the heater so this would be easily achievable. I just don't like making unnecessary holes in my vivarium. I think the only ones I've ever had to make was to attach the thermostat to the cabinet and to put up the bulb. I have an IR gun at home somewhere already so I'll keep this in mind when reading the temperature.

Thanks for the advice.
 
#11 ·
Malc's suggestion is the same as the one I was trying to make - the hole we're suggesting you drill is in the side, not the bottom, and the probe would be several inches above the substrate, not at substrate level or below.

It's up to you of course but I'm not sure why the aversion to drilling a hole - it'll be cleaner and neater looking than having a cable come all the way down from a vent. However if you do prefer that option, then fix it in place with cable cleats as Malc says.
 
#12 ·
You could fit it as you described, but the idea is to keep the probe secure in one location. If you fit it as you describe you would need to use some form of cable cleat / staples to hold the cable in place. My suggested way also means that the probe is at 90 degrees to the back of the viv and is in free air, rather than resting on the back panel as would be the case in your suggestion, unless you were able to bend the probe at the end and fasten it in some way to achieve the same result.

Drilling holes in a vivarium goes hand in hand with fitting equipment, but its also personal preference, personally I prefer not to see lots of cables inside the vivarium.
 
#16 ·
Afraid I've only ever used digital thermometers so can't comment on an infrared. Definitely go with what your thermometer says as opposed to the dial on the stat as these aren't always reliably calibrated, but I agree it sounds rather strange that you're getting a massive difference in readings just a couple of inches apart.

Do you have an alternative way of measuring the temperature? Double probed digital thermometers are great as you can check the hot spot and the cool end at the flick of a switch.
 
#17 ·
I would like to hope that for what the thermostat cost me, it should be accurate- it's not a dial either, it's digital so I don't think there should be an issue with calibration? It seems pointless having all this equipment just to buy more thermometers and probes to have wires running all around and through the vivarium :banghead:

I don't really trust the thermometer as I don't see how right under the lamp can be high 30s and then a couple inches away from it be in the mid 20s I just don't know what else to do that doesn't drive my OCD up the wall with wires and thermometers everywhere. Not to mention I'll just have the same problem that I was avoiding originally with the probe being moved about by the snake. :snake:

I haven't sealed the probe into the hole yet, I just started thinking that it might worth feeding the probe through to ground level, measuring the temp from the stat and adjusting it accordingly against the temp that it reads when it's 'in the air'. I know it seems weird I have this massive aversion to wires and drilling holes but I get so on edge trying to get things perfect and tidy so that if it goes wrong it will niggle at me for a long time. I'm already constantly staring at the hole I made for the probe originally because it's half a centimetre too big :lol:
 
#18 ·
I had assumed it was a thermostat with a dial rather than digital. I have no experience with digital thermostats so don't know if they're significantly more reliable from that point of view.

I wasn't suggesting leaving a thermometer in constantly, so there is no ongoing issue of wires trailing all over the place. Once you're happy you've got the set-up right so that the temperatures you're aiming for are in place, you can check periodically.
 
#19 ·
So decided to plug in my old stat just to use as a digital thermometer... very mixed readings from everything. Though I'm inclined to trust my to stats more than then IR gun because of the massive jump in temperature it presents. Also that it just does not feel that hot at substrate level. Here are some pics of the various readings.

1st pic: Placement. Back probe is the evo stat, ground probe is the old stat.

2nd pic: Evo stat reading

3rd pic: Old stat readin

4th pic: IR thermometer reading

I have no idea if the aspen has anything to do with the ground temp appearing hotter but it honestly doesn't feel that hot to me? I don't know what 30 is supposed to feel like but I could only assume quite hot as people rave in the UK when it hits the 20s :lolsign:

Assuming the two probes are the most accurate. Is there a problem with it being a couple degrees hotter under the ceramic or do I need to turn this down? The space around the hot end, not directly beneath the ceramic, seems to be measuring between 28 - 30 in different spots.

I've never owned a snake which is why I'm being a bit obsessice about this :lol: I just don't want it to die on me when I've tried what I can to make sure temperatures are accurate.
 

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#20 ·
I feel your pain, and frustration, but don't get too hung up on temperatures.

I'm not sure where the discrepancy is. Ok I use my own design of thermostat that uses a digital sensor, and have taken a reading using an IR gun and the temperature shown on the gun when the red dot is pointed to the sensor matches the set point to within 0.2c. My female royal coiled up under the heater reads 31c as an average.

Is the stat you are using (shown in image 2) a pulse stat or on/off ? If you point the IR temperature gun at the thermostats probe is the reading on the IR gun the same as the set point of the thermostat ? - If it is (and I'm guessing it will be) then you know the IR gun is reading the temperature correctly.

Once you know the gun is "calibrated" then use that to measure the temperatures around the heater. If the substrate is higher than the set point, then drop it down a degree, take a reading after 10-15 mins, and if it's still more than the desired temperature you want, drop it another degree and test again after waiting another 10-15 min. To be honest, so long as the hot spot is not excessive, and the snake has access to a cool area then it won't matter if the hot spot is 29c or 31c. The only time you would need to worry would be for tropical species which can not tolerate too low a temperature for long periods of time. Cornsnakes are very hardy, and in the wild will burmate when the temperature gets too cold, so they aren't that bothered if the hot side is 28c, 29c, or 33c.

If your stat is a pulse proportional stat the set temperature then the temperature swings shouldn't be that great when used with a ceramic.

Let us know how things progress, and try not to get too stressed over the setup. At least you are airing your concerns and hopefully we can try and resolve them.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for your reassuring reply, I just want to make sure I have everything right as I'd hate to think my corn snake would either be discontented or wind up sick or worse :(

Okay, now here's the strange part- I've just returned home to my stat flicking over to it's night time drop of 22c (I think this is right for a corn at night?) And now the IR is reading the same as the two probes. Which it was not doing when the stat was set to 30- it was reading at least 5c higher.

The evo is the probe at the back and controlling the ceramic on a pulse setting. The other stat (red display) is an on/off but I'm only using this as a digital thermometer for now to try and adjust my temps.

I'm still not sure whether to trust the IR if it's reading lower temps accurately but not the higher ones?

I think I'm just worried because I'm expecting it to feel hot inside of the vivarium, the substrate is warm but not as 'toasty' as I expected 30+ degrees to feel. I might just be having some silly imagery in thinking it should feel like the sun beaming down on my hand :lol:

I'll try and read the probes with the IR again tomorrow when the day temperature rises back to 30. I'm just sceptical of the IR as my room is probably the right temperature for a night drop anyway, and I think it will definitely start reading high again. At this point I'm inclined to trust my two stats over the IR.

Heck for the cool end I'm just using a strip thermometer to make sure it's doesn't get too warm and I'm less concerned about that failing me at this point :lolsign:

Thanks again :)
 
#22 ·
The thing is that our body temperature is 37c (give or take half a degree), so a snake at 30c will feel cold to us, so whilst you might sense the air as being warm when you open the viv, in theory touching the substrate won't feel hot.

You IR could be out, guess it could be down to how precises that is, and sometimes cheaper items from e-bay are not as good as more expensive ones from Rs or Farnell.
 
#24 ·
To be honest it is a bit of a cheapy. I got it for £8 on Amazon :oops: (but it did have some good reviews, so maybe I just got a faulty one :lol:)

I think I'm at least a little more satisfied to know that a couple degrees over isn't going to hurt my snake, especially as it's only directly under the lamp that this is happening. I put the probe in the cool end over night just out of curiosity to see how the cool end get's when the hot end is about 20-22c... the cold end dropped to about 19c at 8am this morning- and I'm not sure if this is okay or not? I know some people don't use a night time heat at all, or just leave a constant day temperature- but I like to at least try and give my animals a 'natural' experience.

I know everyone says that the snake can just move to the warm end / cold end etc.. but from what I gathered- they can't feel heat or cold? So how does the snake know to move accordingly :lol:
 
#23 ·
I never use the reading on the thermostat to set the temperatures. The stat prob is on my vivs isn't directly under the heat source. Therefore for the probe to reach 30C, the area under the heat will be hotter. For example in our retic vivs the stats are set somewhere between 28-29C, the means that under the heat source the temp stays around 31C.

If you want to check your stat/thermometer is working on, the read the temps right on the stat probe - they should read the same.

Then use the thermometer to measure under the heat source, and adjust the stat a bit (as appropriate). Give it some time to adjust, then repeat until you get the temp you want under the heat. You may find similar to me, that a stat setting of 29 will get to 30-31 under the heat.

I have found the Microclimate Evo to be a really good stat - I am gradually changing most of my stats to either the Evo (or the Prime 2). I really like the extra channel to be able to control a light as well (and I'm also going to be adding UV to my vivs, but that will be slower progress).

Just to add - these sort of heating issues/set up questions are totally normal, nearly everyone goes through them (i still go through them). I really appreciate that you are doing this before having the snake - a lot of people end up getting the snake and then asking these questions.
 
#25 ·
Thanks Sid!

I think I'm having such an issue with it because of the size of the viv- because if I set the stat to 30, the substrate temperature reads at about 32 (or 35 on what I believe to be a faulty IR thermometer) but then the space around the heat source measures perfectly between 30 to 28 and then down to 22 at the cool end, so this is ideally what I'm after to create a good gradient. I feel like if I reduce the stat to make the hot spot 30, that the space around it will in turn get colder and I'll be stuck in limbo with either having too much of a hot spot or too much of a cold spot.

:crazy: My former heating set up was so easy. 25c constant for a pygmy hedgehog on an on/off stat- what on earth have I got myself in for :lolsign:

I know corns are very hardy so I'm probably just over-worrying about a couple of degrees difference :oops: but as you say I'd rather get this sorted before getting the snake than panic over it when he's here and stress him out by constantly tampering with the heating! I'm getting stressed out just trying to achieve it :roll2:

The extra channel is brilliant- I don't have UV light but I do have an LED strip light which I've bought some fixtures for to mount at the back of the vivarium. I was going to put it at the front to keep it out of my sight but then wires :whistling2: (I hate wires :lol:) I may switch up to a UV in future as I know there's no harm in not having one, but some benefits to having one- so when I have the money for an upgrade, we'll see. I know the breeder I've bought off of hasn't used one for hers and she reports them growing lovely and healthy, so I didn't feel this was on my priority list just yet :)
 
#27 ·
Key thing - as long as your corn has an adequate hot spot (and 30 - 32 would be best, rather than 35), it won't come to any harm if other parts of the viv are even at normal UK room temperature (most of it will still be higher). So don't worry where the chips fall in terms of the cool end - if a gradient exists and there is an appropriate hot spot, the corn will be absolutely fine.

Remember that a lot of people just use a solitary heat mat at one end which only serves to heat the snake when it is actually in a hide on top of it, with the ambient temperature in the viv not being raised or controlled at all. You're providing something a lot better than that.
 
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