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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 13-01-2018, 11:53 PM
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Makes a lot of sense.
As I understand things, I would need a pulse/proportional thermostat for the ceramic heat bulb. Luckily this is what I already have with my heatmat.
I've seen a second hand standard mat stat on ebay which I could buy to run the current heatmat with.
In terms of the ceramic light I admit to knowing very little at all. I know it has to be outside the tank, with mesh over hole inside the vivarium so the snake can't get to it. I was looking at this one on ebay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14cm-Rept...0AAOSwE6VXJjMw
Would I simply make the hole in the top of the vivarium and silicone seal/glue the lampshade over it, on top of the vivarium? How hot will the lampshade get? And is 14cm too big or is it okay?
What wattage bulb would you recommend for a 2ft x 15" x 15" vivarium?
BTW, I've also ordered an IR laser temperature gun to look at different heat areas around the tank.
I think if I can get this issue sorted then the vivarium master-plan might just be nearing completion!
Thanks for your continued advice buddy, I appreciate every word of advice all the posters have given me
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian14 View Post
Putting a mat at the top is pointless. Mats are contact heaters so doing this deprives the snake of any heat.
You've obviously never read the instructions that come with Ultratherm mats then

Agreed that the mat get warm, which the snake can take advantage of by contact, but the instructions also state that the mat can be fixed to the rear or side wall as it emits IR radiation which is what actually warms up the muscular structure. Placing that mat above means that the IR radiation is transmitted down onto the snake. Hence my suggestion.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malc View Post
You've obviously never read the instructions that come with Ultratherm mats then

Agreed that the mat get warm, which the snake can take advantage of by contact, but the instructions also state that the mat can be fixed to the rear or side wall as it emits IR radiation which is what actually warms up the muscular structure. Placing that mat above means that the IR radiation is transmitted down onto the snake. Hence my suggestion.
A heat mat will not warm the air.
It is not an IR heater. Never was, never will. It heats on county.
A heat mat does not warm the air. Trying to say otherwise is simply invited respiritory disease.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 12:41 AM
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i used one in just such a scenario as a basking spot for a baroni (on the ceiling above a perch), i think it was 23x11 and it was able to supply at least 82, i didn't know about the high wattage ones back then or if they were available, but they would have been even more efficient.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malc View Post
You've obviously never read the instructions that come with Ultratherm mats then

Agreed that the mat get warm, which the snake can take advantage of by contact, but the instructions also state that the mat can be fixed to the rear or side wall as it emits IR radiation which is what actually warms up the muscular structure. Placing that mat above means that the IR radiation is transmitted down onto the snake. Hence my suggestion.
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I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 12:52 AM
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that lampshade is fine especially for that 60w low profile ceramic i linked earlier, im not sure about regular ceramic bulbs u just need to check their width, u dont have to glue it in place, just sit it on the mesh barrier that separates it from the cage proper. it wont get that hot as the cage has a relatively small volume. ur stat switcheroo idea is perfectly do'able.

60w is fine for that little cage. ceramics are just heaters that produce no light (ceramic material with a coil element inside).

rgds
ed
benjeeman likes this.
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Last edited by loxocemus; 14-01-2018 at 01:14 AM..
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 01:12 AM
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it works, iv done it, but its a poor replacement for a ceramic, but in small or especially temperate setups it works, it would work even better with those high wattage/self adhesive versions.

would i use it for boas or ball adults, no, its just not that efficient, but in say a natural rough green snake setup where u want a low hotspot, and u dont want to actually see the heater, its a neat trick. it would also be good in small terraria for coxi, laticincta, situla, you know the small terrestrial stuff without high heat needs but where u want too boost the background ambient.

the cage i used it in was approx 3x2x2 with a large portion of that volume taken up by perches branches moss (ie a reduced air volume), the entire inside surface was covered in green self adhesive vinyl, and the 23x11 habistat mat was sandwiched between the vinyl and the ceiling surface, ie a hidden heater. i think i had a 25mm thick piece of dense craft foam sitting on top of the cage, on the mats position, to make sure all its energy went down.

the whole thing was just an experimental build, it worked out very well, if u sprayed the heatmat ceiling position all the droplets would hang there for a while, it was an efficient humidity booster too, totally not intended but welcome nonetheless.

like i said not a ceramic replacement, but its a trick that has its niche if u know what ur doing.

rgds
ed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian14 View Post
A heat mat will not warm the air.
It is not an IR heater. Never was, never will. It heats on county.
A heat mat does not warm the air. Trying to say otherwise is simply invited respiritory disease.
Malc likes this.
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian14 View Post
A heat mat will not warm the air.
It is not an IR heater. Never was, never will..
Ian, you're missing the point. I've already suggested the Op upgrades his viv and gets a CHE, but in the mean time to give the snake a better environment than the RUB its currently in I was suggesting he makes the most of what he's got.

Again, if you read the instructions that come with Ultratherm heat mats the very first line is

"Heat mats and strips produce ultra long wavelength infra red heat"

If you want more read the instructions that can be downloaded from www.eurorep.co.uk/index.php?route=product/download/get&download_id=32

With all due respect Ian, its comments like yours that contradict even the manufactures information that simply makes for confusion for someone new to this hobby.

The only time I ever found heat mats to heat the air above them was when they are covered in a wood base substrate and the probe for the stat is not in contact with it. They then get insulated and run extremely warm, something that isn't advisable.

I also didn't advise the OP to cut a hole in the 2' viv he has to mount a CHE externally, just in case he decides to return the flat pack viv an get a refund / credit against a larger 4' one. Not knowing his finances my suggestion of mounting the mat above the hot spot was IMO an suitable suggestion for a short term use until a larger viv, ceramic heater and suitable stat could be purchased.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 05:28 PM
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yep that was me, im all for hacking up vivs, though i wish i could see the horrified looks when people read my hacking up ideas

rgds
ed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malc View Post
Ian, you're missing the point. I've already suggested the Op upgrades his viv and gets a CHE, but in the mean time to give the snake a better environment than the RUB its currently in I was suggesting he makes the most of what he's got.

Again, if you read the instructions that come with Ultratherm heat mats the very first line is

"Heat mats and strips produce ultra long wavelength infra red heat"

If you want more read the instructions that can be downloaded from www.eurorep.co.uk/index.php?route=product/download/get&download_id=32

With all due respect Ian, its comments like yours that contradict even the manufactures information that simply makes for confusion for someone new to this hobby.

The only time I ever found heat mats to heat the air above them was when they are covered in a wood base substrate and the probe for the stat is not in contact with it. They then get insulated and run extremely warm, something that isn't advisable.

I also didn't advise the OP to cut a hole in the 2' viv he has to mount a CHE externally, just in case he decides to return the flat pack viv an get a refund / credit against a larger 4' one. Not knowing his finances my suggestion of mounting the mat above the hot spot was IMO an suitable suggestion for a short term use until a larger viv, ceramic heater and suitable stat could be purchased.
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 09:20 PM
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Smile Hi again guys - I think (or hope) I've cracked it!

Hi again everyone,

After all your input yesterday, for which I am extremely grateful, I think Iíve decided what Iím going to doÖ

Iím going to use the heatmat in its ĎVivexotic Glass Tray Heatmat Holderí under astroturf substrate at the LHS of the 2ft vivarium. Ed - I havenít read or watched anything bad about using astroturf, only good things, as long as you have two pieces so you can replace one with the other when you clean the vivarium and wash/scrub the other one with a 5% bleach solution and/or special reptile disinfectant (which I have) and rinse thoroughly. I have both products so will of course be using both. Do you have any further opinion on this? I want to keep the substrate as low maintenance as possible.

For the second heating option Iíve decided on a 60w ceramic heat bulb, positioned on top of the RHS of the tank, not inside. I donít mind about cutting a hole in the top, itís the optimal environment of the snake which is
of greatest importance to me.

As far as I can figure out, this method should ensure that the heatmat area can retain its higher temperature and the rest of the vivarium should be at the perfect ambient temperature, once Iíve fiddled with the thermostat of course.

Iíve already got a pulse proportional thermostat, and will order the ceramic heat bulb with a shade and mesh for it. In terms of the heatmat Iíve just ordered a second hand standard on/off thermostat for a bargain price.

So after reading and re-reading all your opinions I think this is the best way to go.

What do you guys think?

Thanks once more for all your help Ė you are going to make Honey and his owner both very happy!

Peace out Ė Ben and Honey
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 14-01-2018, 11:09 PM
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three things re astroturf

1. if its over the top of the mat it will insulate the mat, so it will be insulated above and below, this is not good.

2. imagine ur a young ball, u take take comfort/security in being under/amongst substrate, it hides u from predators, it allows u too ambush prey, u push ur nose down on astroturf, nothing... just because ur ball is captive-bred it is not domesticated, in its head its wild with all the wild instincts that come with it.

3. it will hold zero moisture, balls need 60%+ humidity u cant get this from bare wooden walls and plastic grass, u can from bark, from soil, from eco earth.

re maintenance, for one ball the maintenance is so little ul be amazed. a substrate is less maintenance than astroturf, u clean the poop spot, thats it. u keep it moist as it drys out, not wet, moist and ul get good sheds with little effort.

the ceramic position is the same as the mats ie LHS, all heat, whatever form, goes in the same side, this gives a hot end and a cold end, the snake can choose how hot or cold it wants to be.

id set ur pad to 90-92of, ur air to 86-88of.

rgds
ed

Quote:
Originally Posted by benjeeman View Post
Hi again everyone,

After all your input yesterday, for which I am extremely grateful, I think Iíve decided what Iím going to doÖ

Iím going to use the heatmat in its ĎVivexotic Glass Tray Heatmat Holderí under astroturf substrate at the LHS of the 2ft vivarium. Ed - I havenít read or watched anything bad about using astroturf, only good things, as long as you have two pieces so you can replace one with the other when you clean the vivarium and wash/scrub the other one with a 5% bleach solution and/or special reptile disinfectant (which I have) and rinse thoroughly. I have both products so will of course be using both. Do you have any further opinion on this? I want to keep the substrate as low maintenance as possible.

For the second heating option Iíve decided on a 60w ceramic heat bulb, positioned on top of the RHS of the tank, not inside. I donít mind about cutting a hole in the top, itís the optimal environment of the snake which is
of greatest importance to me.

As far as I can figure out, this method should ensure that the heatmat area can retain its higher temperature and the rest of the vivarium should be at the perfect ambient temperature, once Iíve fiddled with the thermostat of course.

Iíve already got a pulse proportional thermostat, and will order the ceramic heat bulb with a shade and mesh for it. In terms of the heatmat Iíve just ordered a second hand standard on/off thermostat for a bargain price.

So after reading and re-reading all your opinions I think this is the best way to go.

What do you guys think?

Thanks once more for all your help Ė you are going to make Honey and his owner both very happy!

Peace out Ė Ben and Honey
Malc and benjeeman like this.
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
Reply With Quote
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