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Old 15-08-2018, 10:04 PM
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Default Carpet Python Jidders, Bites and Nips

So I am getting a Carpet Python. It's a Jungle Jag. It will be 2 months old and the guy says they are all witches. Now I know carpet pythons are almost all nippy and strike out of fear when they are little, just like most snakes but to a higher degree. And I am not worried about that while they are young. I've gone to battle with several feral cats, and subdued a dog that got wound up at a dog park and started attacking other dogs and people. The last cat I had to remove from my shop bit straight though the meat of my hand twice and dug huge cuts all over my arms and i'll do it again when they come in and threaten my own cat. Snake wise, I've only been bitten by a wild gopher snake once, I can make myself get over the shock of it, and i know the pain is not even in the same league as donating a little knuckle skin while wrenching on a car. The reason for this post is I heard someone recently tell me that some carpet pythons never lose their defensiveness and even as large adults will bite you.

I'm fully aware I'm probably gong to get bit several dozen times as I begin to introduce myself as a non-threat, especially with a 2 month old, but theses guys get big. Big enough that they can ruin your afternoon if they lock on and pull with how strong they can get as an adult. Is this guy just full of it? or are some Carpet Pythons just like the green tree pythons, always ready to sink it's teeth in. (and thank god it doesn't have teeth like a tree python, those are a wicked set of front fangs).

The reason I am asking is because I've got my sights set on this baby

And from what I hear she is pretty spunky. I also know other breeders who have more docile Carpet Pythons who's natural personalities are a little more low key. I want to be able to handle this thing when its older without having to worry. I'm willing to put in the time, but I also know some snakes just don't tame. Anyone here with some experience have a thing or two to say?

Last edited by twentyeggs; 15-08-2018 at 10:08 PM..
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Old 15-08-2018, 10:44 PM
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Default Carpet Python Jidders, Bites and Nips

Itís never gonna have teeth like the tree python thatís for sure
Start with tap /hook training,that way they will learn when itís food time and when itís out time . Once settled in and a few good feeds , take the hook and gently give the snake either a couple of taps or a few rubs with it till they get used to it .when my boas where by the glass I always slide it slightly so not to get nipped if they in food mode and give them a few strokes this also gets them used to your smell and normally calms them down from food mode ,
This will take plenty of Times for the snake to get used to it. You should hope fully be able to reach in and gently lift the snake out ,use the hook to keep the bitey end away if itís still be hissy etc .let the snake either just sit in your hand and if it wants to
Move just support and let it go from hand to hand and it will soon learn you arnt going to harm the snake,donít let it near your face either just in case,start off with short handling sessions and you will soon your snakes body language when itís had enough etc , then put it cable gently and start to increase the time when you have noticed the snake settling down more, it takes a good few months so gentle steps,best to put he hard work in now than in the future when itís bigger
donít take out to feed either.do it in the viv/tub, you stand more chance when they in food mode by doing this and they probably still in food mode when you go to put them back,always use tongs for feeding or you will get bit, donít use the tongs for tap training either as the soon learn That tongs mean food
Hope this helps
Cheers rich


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Old 16-08-2018, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardhind View Post
Itís never gonna have teeth like the tree python thatís for sure
Start with tap /hook training,that way they will learn when itís food time and when itís out time . Once settled in and a few good feeds , take the hook and gently give the snake either a couple of taps or a few rubs with it till they get used to it .when my boas where by the glass I always slide it slightly so not to get nipped if they in food mode and give them a few strokes this also gets them used to your smell and normally calms them down from food mode ,
This will take plenty of Times for the snake to get used to it. You should hope fully be able to reach in and gently lift the snake out ,use the hook to keep the bitey end away if itís still be hissy etc .let the snake either just sit in your hand and if it wants to
Move just support and let it go from hand to hand and it will soon learn you arnt going to harm the snake,donít let it near your face either just in case,start off with short handling sessions and you will soon your snakes body language when itís had enough etc , then put it cable gently and start to increase the time when you have noticed the snake settling down more, it takes a good few months so gentle steps,best to put he hard work in now than in the future when itís bigger
donít take out to feed either.do it in the viv/tub, you stand more chance when they in food mode by doing this and they probably still in food mode when you go to put them back,always use tongs for feeding or you will get bit, donít use the tongs for tap training either as the soon learn That tongs mean food
Hope this helps
Cheers rich


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yeah like I said those fangs are wicked looking on the tree pythons. And they are mean. Sorry, but in this case those snake are just spiteful mean evil little things. Everything else can be defensive/scared whatever correct verbiage you wan to use. Even a mamba I can understand, but these tree boas.... no. They have a black soul..

Well this all seems like some great advice and I'm going to follow it with one exception. I've gotta do the feeding bin thing. I know there are different schools of thought on this but I've already seen first hand my other snakes condition themselves to the feed box stimuli. I can reach in immediately after lifting their hide/waking them up and grab all three of my snakes with extreme confidence they will not bite me. They each do their thing on my hand until I put them in that bin. It's like instant hunt mode. It's really cool to watch. They freeze as soon as they touch bottom, if you look close their eyes dilate, and they make quick jerky movements as they slither around. My corn snake has just fantastic eye sight. She can see me through the plastic bin as I take the mice out. She will track it in my hand several feet away and then go for it like a missile. My other 2 snakes are a little more stupid lol they will just circle the bin until they smell something or run into it. They are all hook trained so they leave food mode as soon as they feel the hook. All I do is slide the hook under their head and an inch or two down the body and I think they've figured out that means no more food. with the curved end blocking a path to strike ill then reach in and pick them up. Only a few times my corn snake has slipped it's head around the hook and went to investigate my hand while in food mode, but she never strikes. She seems to know my mice flavored fingers are not real mice. I wouldn't trust this with my Rosy, as she is kind of a derpy snake, if she slipped the hook i'd pull my hand out. I just like the idea of my snakes never associating their terrarium/viv with food. It's worked well so far. But I'm gunna have to grab a bigger bin with this python in a year or two.
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Old 16-08-2018, 05:42 AM
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Hatchlings of most species can be pretty defensive or flighty - they're an easy target and meal for most while they're so small. Typically as they grow in size, they also grow in confidence.

Please don't take them out to eat - a carpet wrapped round a branch is going to be very annoying to remove in order to get it to eat, these guys will often prefer to eat upside down hanging off a branch anyway.

As I posted in another thread... I don't understand the whole taking a Snake out of the enclosure and feeding them in a separate tub, why stress out a snake so much before feeding them? There are many species where it would be completely stupid to do, if they are shy or easily stressed they aren't going to eat or down right dangerous to attempt doing it for others - I wouldn't play with an adult giant species in food mode, neither would I play with anything remotely venomous in food mode...

Jungles are probably one of the more highly strung carpets initially. Also please remember the Jaguar gene is linked to neurological defects.
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Old 16-08-2018, 08:41 AM
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Sorry didn't realise you already had snakes or wouldn't of talked you through the Tap train essay
I certainly won't be taking my 7ft boa out to feed , he's such a big softie but in food mode ,very different, soon as I walk in the room with rats there all at the glass, they really arnt that daft
Well good luck any way

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Old 16-08-2018, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esiuol View Post
Hatchlings of most species can be pretty defensive or flighty - they're an easy target and meal for most while they're so small. Typically as they grow in size, they also grow in confidence.

Please don't take them out to eat - a carpet wrapped round a branch is going to be very annoying to remove in order to get it to eat, these guys will often prefer to eat upside down hanging off a branch anyway.

As I posted in another thread... I don't understand the whole taking a Snake out of the enclosure and feeding them in a separate tub, why stress out a snake so much before feeding them? There are many species where it would be completely stupid to do, if they are shy or easily stressed they aren't going to eat or down right dangerous to attempt doing it for others - I wouldn't play with an adult giant species in food mode, neither would I play with anything remotely venomous in food mode...

Jungles are probably one of the more highly strung carpets initially. Also please remember the Jaguar gene is linked to neurological defects.
[With the exception to venomous snakes/animals/inverts]

It's really no different than handling the snake. If your concerned with stressing out snakes then I guess you would also be opposed to ever taking it out of it's cage except for maintenance. The reason I do this is because reptiles are conditioned just as dogs salivate when a signal is given that it's time to eat. If you feed your snake inside it's enclosure the opening/sliding of a cage/viv signals that it's time to enter food mode and you instantly have a issue on your hands when you do need to remove the snake for cleaning, or if you just want to hold and admire it. It's creates an extra step of calming down the snake and forcing it to realize there is no food.
When I open my cages my snakes know they are getting picked up. When they are put inside the feeding bin they know they are eating. I can reach right into their terrariums seconds after opening them and pick them up, I cannot do this when they've entered their feeding bin; it's hook time until they've been taken out. Their behavior between these two stimuli is consistent and instantaneous. It's simple this way, and it works well for me. I've had 0 problems with feeding doing it this way and I don't have to worry about getting an accidental bite, which is the entire point of doing it this way. Especially when you are dealing with big snakes, the last thing you want to do is trigger their feeding response just by opening it's enclosure when you are really just needing to remove them for maintenance. So I am going to continue the method. While I have not conducted my own experiments on this, hundreds of thousands if not millions of snake breeders and owners can't all experience the same reactions and results of this method as coincidence.

I do have a lizard that would run and hide every time I slid open the top of his terrarium when I first got him. A few months later he realized the opening of his cage means food and now he jumps up and climbs to the top of his perch in excitement. Sure, he's learned I am not a threat to him, but running up to the highest point in his cage to meet me is not because he wants attention, he's hungry and relates the opening of his cage as feeding time. He sometimes vibrates his tail if I am taking too long to grab a cricket out of the feeder cage. I used to just throw them in the cage and let him chase them, again sometimes vibrating his tail in anticipation right before he pounces, but now he eats right from my hands/tongs. So I know that this is an act of learning/conditioning. I believe the same would apply to snakes. Unless I run into a problem, or some reputable study comes out that says this is harmful to my snakes, I am not changing anything.

Maybe if I had a dozen or more snakes, was breeding them, and feeding them all becomes a sort of job, I'd consider changing my method to stream line the task, but I am capping off my collection at 4 snakes and they each have their own large terrariums. I see them more as pets than a collection or business. I also feed them live, due to my Rozy's refusal to eat frozen thawed so I want to be able to supervise/intervene if she throws a bad coil too close to a her prey's teeth. I cannot do this with all her vines, hides, and perches in the way.

Last edited by twentyeggs; 16-08-2018 at 09:09 AM..
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Old 16-08-2018, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twentyeggs View Post
[With the exception to venomous snakes/animals/inverts]

It's really no different than handling the snake. If your concerned with stressing out snakes then I guess you would also be opposed to ever taking it out of it's cage except for maintenance. The reason I do this is because reptiles are conditioned just as dogs salivate when a signal is given that it's time to eat. If you feed your snake inside it's enclosure the opening/sliding of a cage/viv signals that it's time to enter food mode and you instantly have a issue on your hands when you do need to remove the snake for cleaning, or if you just want to hold and admire it. It's creates an extra step of calming down the snake and forcing it to realize there is no food.
When I open my cages my snakes know they are getting picked up. When they are put inside the feeding bin they know they are eating. I can reach right into their terrariums seconds after opening them and pick them up, I cannot do this when they've entered their feeding bin; it's hook time until they've been taken out. Their behavior between these two stimuli is consistent and instantaneous. It's simple this way, and it works well for me. I've had 0 problems with feeding doing it this way and I don't have to worry about getting an accidental bite, which is the entire point of doing it this way. Especially when you are dealing with big snakes, the last thing you want to do is trigger their feeding response just by opening it's enclosure when you are really just needing to remove them for maintenance. So I am going to continue the method. While I have not conducted my own experiments on this, hundreds of thousands if not millions of snake breeders and owners can't all experience the same reactions and results of this method as coincidence.

I do have a lizard that would run and hide every time I slid open the top of his terrarium when I first got him. A few months later he realized the opening of his cage means food and now he jumps up and climbs to the top of his perch in excitement. Sure, he's learned I am not a threat to him, but running up to the highest point in his cage to meet me is not because he wants attention, he's hungry and relates the opening of his cage as feeding time. He sometimes vibrates his tail if I am taking too long to grab a cricket out of the feeder cage. I used to just throw them in the cage and let him chase them, again sometimes vibrating his tail in anticipation right before he pounces, but now he eats right from my hands/tongs. So I know that this is an act of learning/conditioning. I believe the same would apply to snakes. Unless I run into a problem, or some reputable study comes out that says this is harmful to my snakes, I am not changing anything.

Maybe if I had a dozen or more snakes, was breeding them, and feeding them all becomes a sort of job, I'd consider changing my method to stream line the task, but I am capping off my collection at 4 snakes and they each have their own large terrariums. I see them more as pets than a collection or business. I also feed them live, due to my Rozy's refusal to eat frozen thawed so I want to be able to supervise/intervene if she throws a bad coil too close to a her prey's teeth. I cannot do this with all her vines, hides, and perches in the way.

Why ask for advice if you've already made your mind up?

It's pointless to be pulling and fighting Snakes of branches just to put them in a bin to eat - it can all be avoided easily.
If I removed the vast majority of my species to feed them in a plastic tub - they'd be dead from either not eating or stress, it works for the hardy tolerant species only.

Snakes aren't stupid - yes if they're hungry, they'll come over expecting food but they can smell there is no food and quickly relax. I'm happy to open any of my Snake's vivariums at any time and not be bitten, common sense, sadly it isn't as common as the name implies.

Being a breeder or having a business doesn't give keepers the right to be sloppy with their husbandry or enclosures.
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Old 16-08-2018, 01:59 PM
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To answer the original question, the answer is that it will be luck of the draw to some extent.

Everything I've heard suggests that most carpet pythons do calm down after the hatchling/juvenile phase, and become very easy, pleasant snakes to own and handle. That was the case with the pair of Bredls I used to have. However, with any snake, no matter what the species, you get some individuals who remain defensive their whole lives. This applies to carpet pythons as it does to corn snakes, royal pythons, and everything else. But I have never heard that carpet pythons are any less likely to calm down and mature into relaxed adults, even though they do seem to start out as less tractable than many.

I don't want to wade too far into the removing from the viv for feeding debate, but I do think you might find it more difficult to do with a carpet python than with a corn or a rosy (I'm not sure what your third snake is). If the carpet python is coiled round a branch, you're not going to be able to get it to come out of the viv unless it wants to. Persisting with removing it in that situation if it doesn't want to do it itself will cause stress. It's a very different matter from just picking up a terrestrial species.
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Old 20-08-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndavidwoods View Post
To answer the original question, the answer is that it will be luck of the draw to some extent.

Everything I've heard suggests that most carpet pythons do calm down after the hatchling/juvenile phase, and become very easy, pleasant snakes to own and handle. That was the case with the pair of Bredls I used to have. However, with any snake, no matter what the species, you get some individuals who remain defensive their whole lives. This applies to carpet pythons as it does to corn snakes, royal pythons, and everything else. But I have never heard that carpet pythons are any less likely to calm down and mature into relaxed adults, even though they do seem to start out as less tractable than many.

I don't want to wade too far into the removing from the viv for feeding debate, but I do think you might find it more difficult to do with a carpet python than with a corn or a rosy (I'm not sure what your third snake is). If the carpet python is coiled round a branch, you're not going to be able to get it to come out of the viv unless it wants to. Persisting with removing it in that situation if it doesn't want to do it itself will cause stress. It's a very different matter from just picking up a terrestrial species.

Yes, the luck of the draw was certainly the case. I visited the breeder to go get my little hiss, and I checked out all her brothers and sisters. She was completely different than the others. I got first pick of the 2 month old hatchlings and not only is she the prettiest, but her temperament is just amazing. I couldn't ask for anything more. Her siblings would strike as soon as their shelves were slid out. They struck a bunch of times as you picked them up, and struck at anything that moves while in your hands. One even got herself stuck for a quick second on the fibers of the breeders shirt when he/she bit it. My python is just a shy little sweetie. She does want to run away when you are picking her up but she never releases her tail so she just kinda springs back and forth in different directions while you are detaching her little anchor. Then she'll wrap the tip of her tail around your finger coil back and then watch you. When she calms down a few seconds later she gets very curious. I've never seen a snake stretch so much of it's body in a perfectly straight line so far into the air. She really likes to investigate your face so you could be holding her away from your body and she stretches out as straight as a chopstick pointed directly at your face. It's hilarious.

Also I was told that ALL Jags have neuro problems; Even as a babies, you will see the full degree of it and that growing into it/getting worse as they get older is a myth. But for my snake I can't see any sign of neuro. I met both mom and dad and there was no sign of it there either. Was the information about all Jags having issues wrong, or is she going to grow into an issue later on which again I've heard is a myth. She is not a full Jag. Her dad is a Zebra, and her mom is a jungle jag cross.

Last edited by twentyeggs; 20-08-2018 at 04:33 PM..
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