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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2019, 07:42 PM
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Basically, whatever snake you want it needs to be researched as much as possible. There are two sticky posts above that provide basic care for both corns and royals, but also as the individual snake will have its own personality so its worth seeing any individual and experience it for yourself before making the purchase
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2019, 10:23 AM
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Default Hognose Snakes!

Thankyou, we know royals and corns, so itís just the hognose!
Am I right by staying away from anything Ďspiderí wise with Royals also? I love the look of them but from what I know can have problems?


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Old 08-10-2019, 11:32 AM
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The issue of the spider gene has been well documented with examples ranging from a slight wobble, to snakes not being able to right themselves. Again, it varies from snake to snake and individual snakes will show slightly differing issues. Those who consider it no real problem will say that it doesn't affect the snakes feeding, or other natural behaviour. Others who feel that there is an issue will site the fact its neurological and the way the issue affects the snake is wrong. The IHS feel so strongly that this gene should be phased out that they have banned anyone displaying or selling any snake that has spider in it. Most of The people who were stating that snakes with the gene are otherwise perfect and the ban was wrong were breeders who's supplemental income would be affected.

Again, its all down to research. If you like a snake that has spider in the mix, then go and see the individual snake. Place it on its back and see how quick it rights itself. If it does so quickly and has little wobble of its head, and the snake is doing everything else snakes do then there is nothing stopping you from making the purchase.

The thing is that these days there are 1000's of Royal morphs, including genes that affect the patterning, such as leopard, which would make an alternative to those that have the spider gene in them, so maybe more research is in order before taking the plunge.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Malc View Post
The issue of the spider gene has been well documented with examples ranging from a slight wobble, to snakes not being able to right themselves. Again, it varies from snake to snake and individual snakes will show slightly differing issues. Those who consider it no real problem will say that it doesn't affect the snakes feeding, or other natural behaviour. Others who feel that there is an issue will site the fact its neurological and the way the issue affects the snake is wrong. The IHS feel so strongly that this gene should be phased out that they have banned anyone displaying or selling any snake that has spider in it. Most of The people who were stating that snakes with the gene are otherwise perfect and the ban was wrong were breeders who's supplemental income would be affected.

Again, its all down to research. If you like a snake that has spider in the mix, then go and see the individual snake. Place it on its back and see how quick it rights itself. If it does so quickly and has little wobble of its head, and the snake is doing everything else snakes do then there is nothing stopping you from making the purchase.

The thing is that these days there are 1000's of Royal morphs, including genes that affect the patterning, such as leopard, which would make an alternative to those that have the spider gene in them, so maybe more research is in order before taking the plunge.
Whether a spider shows little signs or not NO ONE should buy 1. Buying them just makes breeders breed more. No sales = no money = breeders not breeding them.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:27 PM
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Whether a spider shows little signs or not NO ONE should buy 1. Buying them just makes breeders breed more. No sales = no money = breeders not breeding them.
Without wanting to drag up the whole debate again (it's been debated to death all over the internet) you will never stop breeders introducing spider into any breeding project.

The OP was asking about the whether or not to stay away from a spider royal, or one that has the gene. You or I have no right or say in what they buy. We can express our view points, and to be fair I'm on your side of the fence, in that if there is no market there breeders will stop producing them, but the fact is that due to the attractiveness the spider gene adds that market will never cease.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:40 PM
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Without wanting to drag up the whole debate again (it's been debated to death all over the internet) you will never stop breeders introducing spider into any breeding project.

The OP was asking about the whether or not to stay away from a spider royal, or one that has the gene. You or I have no right or say in what they buy. We can express our view points, and to be fair I'm on your side of the fence, in that if there is no market there breeders will stop producing them, but the fact is that due to the attractiveness the spider gene adds that market will never cease.
Aye you're right. I can't see how a snake lover would want to keep the spider machine rolling though. For every "slight wobble" there must be loads that are killed or die due to be absolutely screwed.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:48 PM
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Aye you're right. I can't see how a snake lover would want to keep the spider machine rolling though. For every "slight wobble" there must be loads that are killed or die due to be absolutely screwed.
To be honest we would never get to the bottom of the problem as no breeder will provide the stats on the success rate of those that hardly show the condition against those that have it bad.

There are other genes that when bred from prove fatal for the offspring.... but snakes with these genes are still produced and sold. There are genes with other defects. The BEL complex can result in a snake with slightly bulging eyes... yet that hasn't stopped me pairing a combination that has resulted in producing one.
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Old 08-10-2019, 06:10 PM
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I think Iím heading towards Pied or Banana type. Both are stunning and would be worth pairing!
I wouldnít want to get a Snake which could have something wrong especially if I plan to breed in the future.
There are so many Spider/spider bee types for sale and although stunning to look at the fact they can have something possibly wrong with them I donít see why people would want to carry on passing on the genes!
Though I would also now like to know how/why/where this all started in Spider genes?


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Old 08-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by elishacoombes9 View Post
I think Iím heading towards Pied or Banana type. Both are stunning and would be worth pairing!
I wouldnít want to get a Snake which could have something wrong especially if I plan to breed in the future.
There are so many Spider/spider bee types for sale and although stunning to look at the fact they can have something possibly wrong with them I donít see why people would want to carry on passing on the genes!
Though I would also now like to know how/why/where this all started in Spider genes?


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All Spiders come from one imported animal.

The neuro issue is linked to the Spider gene - whatever causes the pattern, also causes the neuro issue some are severe and some it's not very noticeable. Sadly with the spider gene - individuals can often get worse as they age and even if a spider shows no sign of a wobble, they can produce spiders with severe wobbles, clutch mates without the spider gene don't suffer from the wobble issue.

Obviously the person who paid big bucks to get their hands on the spider gene isn't going to release that information, or may not have known in the early generations - they would have wanted return on their investment.

Sadly with different snake species in captivity there are morphs with linked issues - corns, royals, western hognoses, carpet pythons etc... it's a big reason I stopped keeping Western Hognoses, these issues seem to be kept quiet for the most part sadly.
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Esiuol View Post
Sadly with different snake species in captivity there are morphs with linked issues - corns, royals, western hognoses, carpet pythons etc... it's a big reason I stopped keeping Western Hognoses, these issues seem to be kept quiet for the most part sadly.
Not to mention there is a wide range of hardy species that have interesting behavior, spectacular patterns and colors without any 'wobble'. Elaphe schrenckii, Elaphe dione and Zamenis situla just to name a few.
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