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Royal Python Temps

1K views 18 replies 4 participants last post by  Martin70 
#1 ·
Firstly hello everyone! So a little about me I have loved snakes since my brother in law bought a corn snake and royal many many years ago and I helped him with them (so I am not a total newbie). Unfortunately, my wife is petrified of snakes so I wasn't allowed one of my own haha. Anyway she has come round (after 17 years) I set up my first vivarium for a royal a few days ago as a hobby between myself and my 11 year old daughter. I have a heat mat at the warm end obviously with a thermostat. The vivarium is wood and is 36 long X 14 deep (will be moving to a 4 ft). Temp at the warm end is 32c or 90f so that's fine however the cold end is 20/22c or 68/72f. Obviously the cold end is below what it should be. The shop where I bought the viv/snake said this is ok as the snake will just spend a little less time in the cold end however I am still a bit worried. What could I do to increase the cold end slightly? I was thinking another heat mat/ thermostat obviously set to 25c or 77f? Also as I am using heat mats I have noticed that the ambient air temp is about 20/22c or 68/72f Thanks
 
#2 ·
firstly, get rid of the heat mat and use a heat bulb / ceramic bulb instead. Having a heat mat in with a large bodied snake can be quite dangerous as it can cause thermo blocking/burns. Alongside this, a heat mat will not provide ambient temps needed, it will provide a great basking spot (arguably) but that is about it. You will probably find this is the reason you are struggling to raise the temps.
 
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#3 ·
Thanks

Hi

Thank you for replying. I have read and watched so many videos with conflicting advice over heat mats vs lamps. Everyone says Royal Pythons are not basking snakes and in their natural habitat they live under rocks or in termite mounds etc. Everyone says they are belly warming and therefore need heat from underneath. I totally understand what you are saying, the guy in the shop also keeps Royals and he recommended both a heat mat and a lamp above..... I am thinking about doing this as it seems to solve all problems?
 
#4 ·
Hi

Thank you for replying. I have read and watched so many videos with conflicting advice over heat mats vs lamps. Everyone says Royal Pythons are not basking snakes and in their natural habitat they live under rocks or in termite mounds etc. Everyone says they are belly warming and therefore need heat from underneath. I totally understand what you are saying, the guy in the shop also keeps Royals and he recommended both a heat mat and a lamp above..... I am thinking about doing this as it seems to solve all problems?
A heat mat does not provide ambient temps, it provides one basking spot but thats it. A ceramic will provide ambient temps and will heat the ground which allows for a basking spot. in there natural habitat, they dont have under floor heating, the sun heats everything for them.

there is no need for both a heat mat And a ceramic, that is just overkill in my opinion. Plus, the heat mat probably wont even turn on due to the heat of the ceramic warming the area up so much that the stat probe recognises it is already at a desired temperature.
 
#7 ·
no problem :2thumb:
 
#9 ·
100 - 150w would be fine for both, however why go to the expense of buying a 3' only to upgrade to a 4' a year later ?

Just get a 4' vivarium, install a 100w ceramic, reflector and guard at one end, and connect it to a pulse proportional thermostat or dimmer stat to control it. Get yourself an IR temp gun to set the hot spot - Setting up is all explained in the two articles I linked to in my post above.....
 
#10 ·
Hi I got the 3-foot tank cheap. Plus my plan is to move the Royal into a 4 foot and to then use the 3 foot for something else.

Yes, I have an IR Temp gun on its way from eBay and going to the local reptile shop tomorrow to get a lamp. (at least I have a spare heat mat now for the 3 foot when I start putting that together for something else haha).

Thanks
Martin
 
#11 ·
Heat mats have their place but they really are not suitable for heating large vivs. The problem is that they are cheaper than ceramics or basking lights, and mat stats are much cheaper than dimming and pulse stats. As a result they are seen as an economical way of heating snakes. Yes, they have a place but not as the sole heat source in a viv.
I use mats for my juveniles that are in rubs, which are housed within a wooden rack. This helps to retain warmth as it's heating small spaces.
I have never used mats in vivs as they just don't do the job.
If you had a reptile room, which is heated to provide a suitable ambient temperature then mats in vivs work as they give a localised hot spot. Otherwise, you need an overhead heater that warms the air.
 
#12 ·
This might be a stupid question but will the lamp heat the surface of the substrate in the hide that my Royal spends most of the time?

I read someone on this forum recommended using a 60w CHE bulb and a heat mat in a 3 foot tank. However others recommend just a 100w CHE bulb on its own.

I am very quickly realising that there it is not a case of right or wrong it all depends on your set up and indeed your house temp etc. It seems what one person uses to get temps right may not work for someone else.

Thanks

Martin
 
#13 · (Edited)
Martin, if you want to use a heat mat as supplementary heating that's fine. However it will need to be on a separate thermostat, with the probe from that sat attached to the middle of one of the mats panels, and then regulated to 32-33c using the IT temp gun. The ceramic is controlled by its own pulse / dimmer stat and set so that the top of the hide is also at 32-33c. Do not try and run the two forms of heating from one stat.


With regards to the wattage - you could put a 500w heater in there - it doesn't matter as it's the thermostat that is controlling the heater. A 60w heater, a 100w heater, a 150w heater and a 500w heater will all reach and maintain a hot spot of 32c. Same way a for focus and a Ferrari can both do 70 mph on a motorway, just that the Ferrari, like the higher wattage heaters will get to the limit a lot quicker.

Don't get to hung up on temps. If you use a ceramic heater and set the thermostat so that the top of the hide directly under the heater is at 33c it doesn't matter if the substrate inside the hide is a few degrees less. If the snake need or wants it hotter then it will seek out the heat.

I have a 150w trough ceramic inside a DIY guard which also doubles up as a shelf. The surface of the shelf is typically 35-37c, yet on occasions (such as when this female was gravid) she sought out that extra warmth (used the IR gun to monitor her temperature)



So it doesn't matter if you set the thermostat up so the inside of the hide reaches 32c which causes the top of it to be 37c. If it want to use that it will. Provided your enclosure has hides that are at both the warm and cool end then that will be fine. The snake will seek the warmth when it wants to, and thermal regulate to the cooler end when it wants to. Being nocturnal, Royals are often found inside the hot hide during the day, storing up the energy for when the lights go out and then they venture out. It's perfectly normal for this species.

My other female doing exactly the same



The probe can be seen sitting on top of the cork hide, which is set to 32c. So on this occasion she wanted more heat. They don't always use this extra heat, but provided you have a gradient between 37c and around 27c then you should be OK.

So no need for two forms of heating, just stick to the one ceramic on a pulse / dimmer stat and set the hot side to around 32-34c
 
#14 ·
Martin, if you want to use a heat mat as supplementary heating that's fine. However it will need to be on a separate thermostat, with the probe from that sat attached to the middle of one of the mats panels, and then regulated to 32-33c using the IT temp gun. The ceramic is controlled by its own pulse / dimmer stat and set so that the top of the hide is also at 32-33c. Do not try and run the two forms of heating from one stat.


With regards to the wattage - you could put a 500w heater in there - it doesn't matter as it's the thermostat that is controlling the heater. A 60w heater, a 100w heater, a 150w heater and a 500w heater will all reach and maintain a hot spot of 32c. Same way a for focus and a Ferrari can both do 70 mph on a motorway, just that the Ferrari, like the higher wattage heaters will get to the limit a lot quicker.

Don't get to hung up on temps. If you use a ceramic heater and set the thermostat so that the top of the hide directly under the heater is at 33c it doesn't matter if the substrate inside the hide is a few degrees less. If the snake need or wants it hotter then it will seek out the heat.

I have a 150w trough ceramic inside a DIY guard which also doubles up as a shelf. The surface of the shelf is typically 35-37c, yet on occasions (such as when this female was gravid) she sought out that extra warmth (used the IR gun to monitor her temperature)

image

So it doesn't matter if you set the thermostat up so the inside of the hide reaches 32c which causes the top of it to be 37c. If it want to use that it will. Provided your enclosure has hides that are at both the warm and cool end then that will be fine. The snake will seek the warmth when it wants to, and thermal regulate to the cooler end when it wants to. Being nocturnal, Royals are often found inside the hot hide during the day, storing up the energy for when the lights go out and then they venture out. It's perfectly normal for this species.
Thank you for your advice yeah i totally get what you mean with your Ferrari enology just on the flip side i dont want to buy a bulb that will struggle to get to the right temp and be constantly on just to get to the right temp. 100w sounds perfect for my set up.

Yeah i would never try and run two heat sources from one stat. I do still kind of like the idea of having a supplementary heat mat. I understand CHE lamps dry the tank out so humidity will be lower. UTH would counteract this as well as give some belly heat while in the hide. I know I am probably trying a bit to hard to make everything perfect for our snake who obviously is not unhappy in any way at the min, its more for my peace of mind knowing every area is at the right temp and humidity is constant etc.

Cheers

Martin
 
#17 ·
Essex Reptile seems to be a small shop based in Braintree, so it's not as if you are buying from someone flogging stuff from a back bedroom.

Not bad value for money, but its lacking a reflector and conical CHEs radiate heat all round, so that guard may get hot enough to cause a problem.

These tend to radiate heat downwards (with some upwards, with less chance of heating the sides of the guards)

https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/arcadia-ceramic-heater/

Might be worth contacting the seller and asking them if they could substitute the conical heater for a round flat one of the same 100w rating - and pay the difference
 
#16 ·
You'll never get thing perfect. We're trying to replicate the snakes natural environment in a small wooden box. The closest we can get is to replicate the sun by providing heat from an overhead source, along with lighting to give day/ night photo period (and possibly UV of the desired intensity and wavelength). Provide the humidity by either regular misting or using substrates that hold humidity well.

There is no right or wrong way of doing things. At one end of the scale people keep snakes in racks of tubs in heated rooms with localised hot spots provided via heat cables or mats. The other end of the scale, people create fully planted and bio substrates, with filtered water sections forming ponds. It has even been know that where the species feeds on fish, the water section is replenished regularly with suitable live fish to encourage he snake to naturally hunt. Regardless of where you place your set up in that range, it won't be wrong.

You'll learn how to read the snake. It will show you through its behaviour if its not happy or if conditions are wrong. If the snake sheds in a complete piece this normally dictates the snake is healthy and that you have the conditions right, but this can vary from snake to snake, and even from shed to shed with the same snake - they are all individuals and their physiology can change in the same way any other creature can.

Just focus on getting the basics right - provide a hot side and a cool side, with hides at either end. Provide some form of lighting for photo-period, and either use a substrate that retained humidity, or when humidity falls below 50% mist the tank daily with warm water, twice a day if humidity is low when the snake has just come out of the blue stage of a shed
 
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