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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:29 PM
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I get the whole, eco-system constantly changing and well what has already been said so not going to repeat it. I also agree that the most amount of damage has been by man.

This invasion wasn't a natural invasion, this was because of us. As I said before I don't like the idea of animals being culled, but really we should be doing what we can to repair the damage that we have done. Most of the damage we have done is irreversible, but what if the everglade's ecosystem does not adapt and becomes completely destroyed? That would be down to us, so we should try and limit damage where we can.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bladeblaster View Post
you could make a start by commiting suicide then? Surely that would be a start, and I assume that you are using a solar powered computer to post on here, to reduce your carbon footprint?
No, but i see where you're coming from. Remember though, i'm not saying we *should* be culling humans, and i'm not saying we *should* be culling animals. My point rests on one premise: if we're calling for killing animals that are causing harm to other animals or ecosystems, then humans should top that list. Given that i'm not saying we should be doing that, i will spare preparing the noose for now. And me not killing myself in no way stops what i'm saying being true, so it's a moot point from you really. Unless you're denying that humans are the most destructive thing in existence.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by richwhite View Post
Right, and that's exactly what humans are...
What is it with you,are you being bullied at the mo.
Humans have evolved to live and survive on any part of this earth,Animals,well most can not,and have to be moved to a different location by us.
You just don't seem to grasp the point of invasive species.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:32 PM
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No, but i see where you're coming from. Remember though, i'm not saying we *should* be culling humans, and i'm not saying we *should* be culling animals. My point rests on one premise: if we're calling for killing animals that are causing harm to other animals or ecosystems, then humans should top that list. Given that i'm not saying we should be doing that, i will spare preparing the noose for now. And me not killing myself in no way stops what i'm saying being true, so it's a moot point from you really. Unless you're denying that humans are the most destructive thing in existence.
But that's exactly the point you seem to be repeatedly missing. It was humans who accidentally introduced these animals and as such it's for humans to fix the mess. That is, limit the damage they do (and are doing) to the ecosystem. Rather than needing to commit suicide, perhaps we just fix what we did wrong, like removing Afrocks and Burms from the Everglades...
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:33 PM
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I agree with it being put down for reasons already stated . Just as i support the whole sale culling of mink destroying all our wildlife here , thats just my opinion though
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:33 PM
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It's not a straw man to say Florida hasn't had millennia to adapt to the introduction of Burms etc. It's a fact. Migrating populations and evolution have nothing to do with the sudden and dramatic increase of a non-native animal introduced by man.

There's a reason we don't have many red squirrels left - it's because the Greys (and more specifically the pox they carry) has wiped them out. There won't be any left soon at this rate. An example of non-native alien species damaging a native ecosystem.

Burms moving into the 'glades isn't just "one more predator preying on stuff anyway".... it's an immensely strong, fast-breeding apex predator out-competing the native wildlife for the prey. Tens of thousands of new Burms and Afrocks etc introduced every year means less and less food for native snakes, Crocs etc. Guess who suffers?
It is a straw man, because it being done by man doesn't really matter. Whether an animal migrated to a new place on a fallen tree that floated to another piece of land or it fell out of a warehouse doesn't matter because the end result is the same: a non-native species invading somewhere else. And it takes time to adapt. It doesn't take longer just because man put it there.

Good point about the squirrels, but what does that tell us? We're calling to keep things "natural" but would also try and limit the "natural" changes that occur because we consider them different. Many animals have gone extinct naturally in the past, and more will in the future. We have an obsession with keeping everything alive and expect it to "flourish". Unrealistic i'm afraid. What typically happens when an ecosystem changes and animals are threatened is they migrate elsewhere.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple_D View Post
What is it with you,are you being bullied at the mo.
Humans have evolved to live and survive on any part of this earth,Animals,well most can not,and have to be moved to a different location by us.
You just don't seem to grasp the point of invasive species.
Burmese Pythons belong, and work well in the ecosystem of, Asia. Things like Alligators and Colubrids belong, and work well in the ecosystem of, Florida. Never the twain shall meet!
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple_D View Post
What is it with you,are you being bullied at the mo.
Humans have evolved to live and survive on any part of this earth,Animals,well most can not,and have to be moved to a different location by us.
You just don't seem to grasp the point of invasive species.
I've totally grasped it. Find me another animal that has systemically gone around the world, and built things like planes and boats to do it, and demolished anything in the way? Whether it's rainforests or plants or vast species of animals, we devastate.

We haven't evolved to live anywhere at all. We have just built things to make it possible. Go live in Alaska without man-made clothes or man-made central heating, or the Saharan desert without man-made air conditioning and tell me how evolved you feel.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by richwhite View Post
It is a straw man, because it being done by man doesn't really matter. Whether an animal migrated to a new place on a fallen tree that floated to another piece of land or it fell out of a warehouse doesn't matter because the end result is the same: a non-native species invading somewhere else. And it takes time to adapt. It doesn't take longer just because man put it there.

Good point about the squirrels, but what does that tell us? We're calling to keep things "natural" but would also try and limit the "natural" changes that occur because we consider them different. Many animals have gone extinct naturally in the past, and more will in the future. We have an obsession with keeping everything alive and expect it to "flourish". Unrealistic i'm afraid. What typically happens when an ecosystem changes and animals are threatened is they migrate elsewhere.
Not if they get eaten before they have a chance to realize whats happening they don't
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richwhite View Post
It is a straw man, because it being done by man doesn't really matter. Whether an animal migrated to a new place on a fallen tree that floated to another piece of land or it fell out of a warehouse doesn't matter because the end result is the same: a non-native species invading somewhere else. And it takes time to adapt. It doesn't take longer just because man put it there.
A snake floating across a stretch of water on a log, gravid or otherwise, does not equate to the sudden release of thousands upon thousands of large apex predators into a limited ecosystem.

Quote:
Good point about the squirrels, but what does that tell us? We're calling to keep things "natural" but would also try and limit the "natural" changes that occur because we consider them different. Many animals have gone extinct naturally in the past, and more will in the future. We have an obsession with keeping everything alive and expect it to "flourish". Unrealistic i'm afraid. What typically happens when an ecosystem changes and animals are threatened is they migrate elsewhere.
True, this is nature. But killing off half the native species of Florida because someone let a load of pythons loose in the New World is not evolution or obsessing over naturalness. It's management and conservation.
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