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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:37 PM
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But that's exactly the point you seem to be repeatedly missing. It was humans who accidentally introduced these animals and as such it's for humans to fix the mess. That is, limit the damage they do (and are doing) to the ecosystem. Rather than needing to commit suicide, perhaps we just fix what we did wrong, like removing Afrocks and Burms from the Everglades...
I'm not missing it, i'm putting it in a broader context. "Man put burms in Florida, let's kill the burms. Ok, but man also killed a ton of other animals and natural resources which have caused far more devastation on a global level than the burms have in Florida." Pretty simple really. Even if we fixed the problems of burms in Florida we would by no means have "fixed what we did wrong". We have done a LOT wrong, not least driving species to the edge of extinction because we want trophies and nice boots and jewellery.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:37 PM
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No, but i see where you're coming from. Remember though, i'm not saying we *should* be culling humans, and i'm not saying we *should* be culling animals. My point rests on one premise: if we're calling for killing animals that are causing harm to other animals or ecosystems, then humans should top that list. Given that i'm not saying we should be doing that, i will spare preparing the noose for now. And me not killing myself in no way stops what i'm saying being true, so it's a moot point from you really. Unless you're denying that humans are the most destructive thing in existence.
most destructive thing, no we aren't.

most destructive animal on earth, yes clearly.

however we are top of the tree, for however long our species exists we are able to call the shots, and unless you are actively fighting this then you are as bad as anyone culling burms in the everglades.

Just by going about your normal daily life you are destroying many habitats, so your are equally guilty of killing animals as a guy in the everglades with a shotgun.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:38 PM
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I've totally grasped it. Find me another animal that has systemically gone around the world, and built things like planes and boats to do it, and demolished anything in the way? Whether it's rainforests or plants or vast species of animals, we devastate.

We haven't evolved to live anywhere at all. We have just built things to make it possible. Go live in Alaska without man-made clothes or man-made central heating, or the Saharan desert without man-made air conditioning and tell me how evolved you feel.
Ask an Inuit or a Bedouin?

It's the very point that we introduced Pythons to non-native lands that makes it devastating, and also why it's our job to fix it before we do irreparable damage.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:38 PM
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I've totally grasped it. Find me another animal that has systemically gone around the world, and built things like planes and boats to do it, and demolished anything in the way? Whether it's rainforests or plants or vast species of animals, we devastate.

We haven't evolved to live anywhere at all. We have just built things to make it possible. Go live in Alaska without man-made clothes or man-made central heating, or the Saharan desert without man-made air conditioning and tell me how evolved you feel.
People have lived in those parts of the world for donkeys years,with out man made fibres, or man made building fabrics.
Im off now this is getting silly.Going hunting mink and grey little bushy tails
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:38 PM
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A snake floating across a stretch of water on a log, gravid or otherwise, does not equate to the sudden release of thousands upon thousands of large apex predators into a limited ecosystem.



True, this is nature. But killing off half the native species of Florida because someone let a load of pythons loose in the New World is not evolution or obsessing over naturalness. It's management and conservation.
Indeed, it has happened rapidly. And i can see the reason why people are for culling (and i'll say it for a third time for those who haven't read the whole thread, i'm not against culling).
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:40 PM
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Just by going about your normal daily life you are destroying many habitats, so your are equally guilty of killing animals as a guy in the everglades with a shotgun.
Maybe you should elaborate on that
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by richwhite View Post
I'm not missing it, i'm putting it in a broader context. "Man put burms in Florida, let's kill the burms. Ok, but man also killed a ton of other animals and natural resources which have caused far more devastation on a global level than the burms have in Florida." Pretty simple really. Even if we fixed the problems of burms in Florida we would by no means have "fixed what we did wrong". We have done a LOT wrong, not least driving species to the edge of extinction because we want trophies and nice boots and jewellery.
But the point is, the damage caused globally is irreversible, there is nothing we can do to change what we have done in that respect. However with damage limitation we won't have yet another destroyed eco-system under our belt (if it doesn't adapt that is)
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:41 PM
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People have lived in those parts of the world for donkeys years,with out man made fibres, or man made building fabrics.
Im off now this is getting silly.Going hunting mink and grey little bushy tails
Hardly changes the fact that we invaded every part of the world, after building the means to do so, and then destroyed it. And reproduced to a point of unsustainability
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:42 PM
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most destructive thing, no we aren't.

most destructive animal on earth, yes clearly.

however we are top of the tree, for however long our species exists we are able to call the shots, and unless you are actively fighting this then you are as bad as anyone culling burms in the everglades.

Just by going about your normal daily life you are destroying many habitats, so your are equally guilty of killing animals as a guy in the everglades with a shotgun.
yeh i forgot, my job is a logger in the amazon rainforest.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:44 PM
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yeh i forgot, my job is a logger in the amazon rainforest.
Actually unless you grow all your own food locally and organically, and harvest your own leather (or grow your own fibres for yarn), then yes you're contributing massively to deforestation just by eating and consuming goods. Everyone knows that, surely?

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