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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kirsty2474 View Post
But the point is, the damage caused globally is irreversible, there is nothing we can do to change what we have done in that respect. However with damage limitation we won't have yet another destroyed eco-system under our belt (if it doesn't adapt that is)
I know, and it's true, and i agree that culling is probably the right thing to do.
What i was originally trying to get at is simply that ecosystems change over time all by themselves, and animals die as a result of it. Before humans existed. That doesn't mean i'm suggesting we go and destroy more ecosystems, quite the contrary - i was trying to point out the bigger picture that as a species humans have caused more damage, and continue to cause more damage, than any other animal, even the most evil little sod, could even wish to.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:45 PM
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Actually unless you grow all your own food locally and organically, and harvest your own leather (or grow your own fibres for yarn), then yes you're contributing massively to deforestation just by eating and consuming goods. Everyone knows that, surely?

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actually I do, i dress in a burlap sack, and i have my own farm.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:46 PM
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yeh i forgot, my job is a logger in the amazon rainforest.
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actually I do, i dress in a burlap sack, and i have my own farm.
Coming from the Midlands I shouldn't be surprised...
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:47 PM
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Maybe you should elaborate on that
you are as guilty as the rest of the human race for destroying habitats around the globe. Unless of course you are not a part of western society, and you live in a cave, with no man made objects?

If burms killing off species in the everglades is just natural selection, and we should let them get on with it, then people killing whatever we want for what ever reason we want is just natural selection surely, unless of course the Christians are right and we are some sort of mythical creation, and not at all natural.

You say that we as a race are arrogant to think we can do what we want to the planet, but how arrogant is it to suggest that we are in someway 'supernatural, that the laws of nature do not apply to us?

Every animal strives to multiply and expand its territory as much as possible, we just happen to be damned good at it, but we are still following basic natural instincts.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:48 PM
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Coming from the Midlands I shouldn't be surprised...
hey, that is uncalled for, you are in fact from liverpool
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:49 PM
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hey, that is uncalled for, you are in fact from liverpool
Nope, wrong. I moved here to improve the mean IQ of the City.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:50 PM
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Nope, wrong. I moved here to improve the mean IQ of the City.
you've done a great job
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bladeblaster View Post
you are as guilty as the rest of the human race for destroying habitats around the globe. Unless of course you are not a part of western society, and you live in a cave, with no man made objects?

If burms killing off species in the everglades is just natural selection, and we should let them get on with it, then people killing whatever we want for what ever reason we want is just natural selection surely, unless of course the Christians are right and we are some sort of mythical creation, and not at all natural.

You say that we as a race are arrogant to think we can do what we want to the planet, but how arrogant is it to suggest that we are in someway 'supernatural, that the laws of nature do not apply to us?

Every animal strives to multiply and expand its territory as much as possible, we just happen to be damned good at it, but we are still following basic natural instincts.
Exactly my point. Saying it's natural selection and then introducing arguments about man's domination and colonisation of the earth ignores the fact that (1) it was Man who caused the Burm problem to begin with and (2) we ARE part of nature.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:51 PM
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Nope, wrong. I moved here to improve the mean IQ of the City.
Great Job You've Done So Far
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bladeblaster View Post
you are as guilty as the rest of the human race for destroying habitats around the globe. Unless of course you are not a part of western society, and you live in a cave, with no man made objects?

If burms killing off species in the everglades is just natural selection, and we should let them get on with it, then people killing whatever we want for what ever reason we want is just natural selection surely, unless of course the Christians are right and we are some sort of mythical creation, and not at all natural.

You say that we as a race are arrogant to think we can do what we want to the planet, but how arrogant is it to suggest that we are in someway 'supernatural, that the laws of nature do not apply to us?

Every animal strives to multiply and expand its territory as much as possible, we just happen to be damned good at it, but we are still following basic natural instincts.
Perhaps the main difference is that most of us don't really have a choice? We're born into this society and unless we actively educate ourselves and strive to change things on a personal level, that's just the way things are.

And i'm not remotely against us multiplying and advancing, i love technology as much as the next guy. But i think it's hypocritical to point to an animal and say how much destruction it's causing when white Europeans made it their job to invade as many pieces of land as possible. And push out the natives like the Aboriginals in the process. And chop down the trees in the process. And if you're going to say that it's just natural selection that this happens, then it's also natural selection for the burms to be eating the other animals in Florida, because let's face it, man put them there, but man also put itself in non-native countries. You can't have it both ways, either invading is bad and we should all retreat to our place of origin, or destroying ecosystems is bad in which case we have to take some blame too. That doesn't mean we should kill ourselves or stop advancing things, but christ, shouldn't we at least acknowledge it?

(And, unlike other animals, we kill for pleasure. Animals don't go and kill other animals to put a head on their habitat wall, or to wear around their neck. We're unique in that respect.)
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