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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 24-05-2013, 12:36 AM
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Males definitely do harass females that are not receptive to breeding / rejecting the males attempts, definitely. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. This results in two very vexed snakes, and it really would not surprise me if it would cause the female to attack the male.

EDIT: Given the audience, I can tell that some of you girls are just itching to turn the first part of my statement into some sort of smutty dig at me. Behave yourselves. :p
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Last edited by Se7enS1ns; 24-05-2013 at 12:42 AM..
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 24-05-2013, 12:41 AM
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vexed
I didn't know you were so street!

Guys c'mon, are you really arguing with Gregg, he's the best keeper here amongst us mere peasants.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 24-05-2013, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mrkeda View Post
I didn't know you were so street!

Guys c'mon, are you really arguing with Gregg, he's the best keeper here amongst us mere peasants.
I use "vexed" with a slight Dickensian tone. I'm not gangsta enough for street talk.

Fo' shizzle.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 24-05-2013, 12:50 AM
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I use "vexed" with a slight Dickensian tone. I'm not gangsta enough for street talk.

Fo' shizzle.
Word to ya mother, safe one.
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Old 24-05-2013, 01:04 AM
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I keep my corn snakes together, I have kept 2 males together too, the only thing I have observed with 2 males is the combat ritual, and it wasn't really a harmful, quite an amazing and interesting thing to watch tbh, though they are now in more suitible ratios I definately wouldn't class what I seen as fighting, especially when I have seen what 2 other, more territorial male reptiles can do to each other in close proximity.

Equally separating into another enclosure can equally be an easy soloution if you want to wait before introducing.

I find the idea of co-habs rather appealing, (if done right of course) but each to their own eh?
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Old 24-05-2013, 04:24 AM
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And people think I am rude? LOL. I bring to this thread what actually goes on with these animals and get jumped on, but I am the rude one.

Everyone is almost certain that this, that, and the other thing is going to happen if you cohabitate snakes, yet no one can prove anything. How can one even be almost certain or pretty sure of something if they have seen or experienced it. I was 100% sure that Santa was real when I was a kid but we all know the truth.

Remember kids, it is not about me or you or who is right or wrong. It is about the animals and what they do. It has shit all to do with wether or not I am a better keeper. I just happen to be very experienced. All I can offer is 25 years of my experience an research. I can fully understand why many truely experienced keepers and breeders stay away from these forums. It seems many people just want to blindly follow care sheets.

Snakes do not fight to cause injury or attack each other out of anger. They are not territorial. A female will not attack a male if he is trying to breed her when she is not receptive. A male will try and copulate a non receptive female but only for a short time and will not try again until she releases her " I am ready to breed " pheromones. You can easily and safely house reptiles together. This is actual fact and not just my observations from a few hundred pairings I have done myself. It makes no difference if some of you do not care to hear what I say. It is your own problem if you can not get away from recipe reptile keeping. What does matter is that there are people who are open to learning new ways and stepping outside the box when it comes to reptile husbandry.
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Last edited by Gregg M; 24-05-2013 at 04:52 AM..
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 24-05-2013, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregg M View Post
And people think I am rude? LOL. I bring to this thread what actually goes on with these animals and get jumped on, but I am the rude one.

Everyone is almost certain that this, that, and the other thing is going to happen if you cohabitate snakes, yet no one can prove anything. How can one even be almost certain or pretty sure of something if they have seen or experienced it. I was 100% sure that Santa was real when I was a kid but we all know the truth.

Remember kids, it is not about me or you or who is right or wrong. It is about the animals and what they do. It has shit all to do with wether or not I am a better keeper. I just happen to be very experienced. All I can offer is 25 years of my experience an research. I can fully understand why many truely experienced keepers and breeders stay away from these forums. It seems many people just want to blindly follow care sheets.

Snakes do not fight to cause injury or attack each other out of anger. They are not territorial. A female will not attack a male if he is trying to breed her when she is not receptive. A male will try and copulate a non receptive female but only for a short time and will not try again until she releases her " I am ready to breed " pheromones. You can easily and safely house reptiles together. This is actual fact and not just my observations from a few hundred pairings I have done myself. It makes no difference if some of you do not care to hear what I say. It is your own problem if you can not get away from recipe reptile keeping. What does matter is that there are people who are open to learning new ways and stepping outside the box when it comes to reptile husbandry.
See i normally agree with you mate, but i suppose it depends on your definition of fight, if you would count sparring as fighting, then it happens alot, but as you say, sparring normally leads to no damage to the animals, but it can be stressful on the loser, but nothing that can't be sorted easily. But male retics i have seen really fight, in the sense of defensive biting, and from my experience it is territory and female motivated.

But i do agree with you that in most cases, cohabiting will be fine, (species dependent), with no sparring, very little harrassing and no physical fighting, but it can go wrong, with snakes becoming dominated by cage mates in subtle ways, out competed for the best spots etc, which can cause sress, and sparring can cause issues, but is only ever a male x male thing, and cannabalism is a risk with most species, but in most cases a very small one.

You are one of the people on here that i do have respect for, but a few of my own experiences have been a little different to your own.
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Old 25-05-2013, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by NBLADE View Post
See i normally agree with you mate, but i suppose it depends on your definition of fight, if you would count sparring as fighting, then it happens alot, but as you say, sparring normally leads to no damage to the animals, but it can be stressful on the loser, but nothing that can't be sorted easily. But male retics i have seen really fight, in the sense of defensive biting, and from my experience it is territory and female motivated.

But i do agree with you that in most cases, cohabiting will be fine, (species dependent), with no sparring, very little harrassing and no physical fighting, but it can go wrong, with snakes becoming dominated by cage mates in subtle ways, out competed for the best spots etc, which can cause sress, and sparring can cause issues, but is only ever a male x male thing, and cannabalism is a risk with most species, but in most cases a very small one.

You are one of the people on here that i do have respect for, but a few of my own experiences have been a little different to your own.
Well, I am no retic guy so I have no experience with them at all. And I respect you as well my friend. Not just for what you know but for the way you go about disagreeing.

I do not consider the sparring actual fighting. Especially when compared to what reptiles like monitors, crocs, other lizards geckos, and even turtles and torts will do to each other when showing dominance, fighting for breeding rights, or holding down a territory. As you well know, it is much different, to the point where cohabitating snakes can not be compared to cohabitating these other reptiles.

People like to blame the animals and their behavior when issue pop up. The truth is, it is a keepers lack of understanding their animals is what causes the issues.

Here is a perfect example of someone not understanding a simple defensive behavior.

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Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
So I guess that I have the only corn then that is?

She was co-habited (don't think that's a word, but it should be) for most of her life it seems, and now she has her own vivarium no person (and I HIGHLY doubt no other snake) is allowed past the runners without her squaring you up, striking, biting (if your not out quickly) huffing and rattling. The viv is hers, I'm more then happy to let her have it. She deserves it after previous owners had a total lack of knowledge on even basic co-habiting husbandry.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 25-05-2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Gregg M View Post
Here is a perfect example of someone not understanding a simple defensive behavior.
Excuse me, but isn't it more then a bit rude and excessively childish to openly kick someone like that when I've let you know I am out of the conversation? Doid you not think I would still be reading? Try and grow a pair and PM me if you feel the need to carry on something that you OBVIOUSLY know nothing about.

How can you 100% say for certain you know exactly how my snake is behaving and why when you know nothing about it's past other then a few comments from myself? Are you a vet? Are you some kind of worlds first snake psychic? No, you don't know how my snake acts, I do. Self-righteous know-it-all springs too mind. I would appreciate it if you stop using a situation that you do not fully understand to prove a point that that is flawed.

Take this to PM if you will, but please refrain from pigeon holing MY animals to your sub-standard categories.

Good day to you.
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Old 25-05-2013, 05:07 PM
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Excuse me, but isn't it more then a bit rude and excessively childish to openly kick someone like that when I've let you know I am out of the conversation?
No, it is not rude or childish. It was just an example of something that proves my point about people keeping these animals and not understanding their actual behaviors.

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Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
Doid you not think I would still be reading?
I was hoping that you were reading. Maybe if you read something I am saying, it may prompt you to do a little reading and it might help you to actually understand the behavior your animal displays/

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Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
Try and grow a pair and PM me if you feel the need to carry on something that you OBVIOUSLY know nothing about.
So, it would make me have a pair if I brought it over to PM? I do not quite understand that logic. I am addressing your lack of understanding either way. I like doing it out in the open so people reading do not take what you are saying about the behavior of your snake seriously. People should know what their actual behavior is and not what YOU translate it as. The fact is, and it is OBVIOUS to see by anyone reading that it is YOU who is misunderstanding your snakes behavior, not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
How can you 100% say for certain you know exactly how my snake is behaving and why when you know nothing about it's past other then a few comments from myself?
See, your snakes past has nothing to do with it. You snake is acting DEFENSIVE. It is not territorial. Corn snakes are NOT territorial. It is a fact. It is not in their biology to be territorial. Again, you are the one who is misunderstanding your snakes behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
Are you a vet? Are you some kind of worlds first snake psychic?
Those questions have nothing to do with the topic. Being a vet does not make you an expert in corn snake behavior. What does make someone an expert in their behavior is keeping them for years and being able to see and study them constantly in their natural habitats. Some thing you obviously have not done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
No, you don't know how my snake acts, I do.
Yes, I do know how your snake acts. I have seen this behavior hundreds of times over many years.

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Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
Self-righteous know-it-all springs too mind.
It is not about me. It is about the animals and relaying proper information. Call me what you like. It will not change fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
I would appreciate it if you stop using a situation that you do not fully understand to prove a point that that is flawed.
You keep saying that I do not understand yet it is you who does not understand what you are seeing. What you wrote about your snakes behavior and how you translate is proves my point 100%. The fact that you are sticking to what you believe proves another point. That is that some people don't want to learn the facts and are happy in their fairytale world of make believe. If it makes you happy to believe you have the worlds only territorial corn snake, that's fine, but to not push your lack of understanding on people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
Take this to PM if you will, but please refrain from pigeon holing MY animals to your sub-standard categories.
I prefer to keep it here so others can get facts instead of misinterpretations by an inexperienced keeper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonoak View Post
Good day to you.
I always do have a good day. In fact my entire week has been awesome. Over the last 2 days I added 60 something more eggs to the incubators from 4 different species. Some of the females that laid the eggs are very defensive towards people but had no problems when the males were introduced. But hey, what do I know?

So again, no matter what you believe or think you see, it is proven and widely accepted by science that snakes do not claim or defend territories. They do not display a single territorial behavior. This is all proven, factual information.
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Last edited by Gregg M; 25-05-2013 at 05:21 PM..
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