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Old 17-01-2013, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterUK View Post
Please dont, not unless it is a link to something like a scientific paper or similar.

........or it`s got lots of pictures and a colouring in page.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 17-01-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Poxicator View Post
@GRB, That kind of argument discards common factors that hobbyists have found to kill tarantula. Whether that death is attributed to DKS or KillerTarantulaDeathSyndrome really doesnt matter to the hobbyist, the result is the same.

Out of interest, have you:
1. experienced the symptoms that others have described as DKS ie fast, erratic behaviour?
2. have you found any reference to DKS in any written articles, from credible people?
3. have you contacted the makers of Frontline?
4. have you experienced dehydration with tarantula?
It doesn't discard anything: It sim[ly says grouping a bunch of deaths together under one title "DKS" is not helping understand any of them individually.

To answer your questions -

1. Nope, I've either been lucky or do not contact whatever substance / prey item / anything that causes these sorts of symptoms

2. Nope. I don't consider anything written about DKS so far to be credible really, unless there is a paper on it that I have missed written by someone who looked at cellular / toxicity material / dietary deficiencies.

Anything else is just heresay / anecdotal evidence. For all we know it could be a chronic lack of a vitamin in the diet just as much as the action of a pesticide.

3. Why would I do that? I was content with the cautious notion that all pesticides will probably affect arachnids. I don't see the need to approach Vapona and other pesticide manufacturers to confirm this.

I don't say this sound arrogant - the idea that frontline was a cause was, iirc, already proposed before I entered the hobby. From my background, the hypothesis that they would not cause damage to arachnids is counter intuitive, so I would have assumed that was one of the first things suggested.

4. No. I know the symptoms but my tarantulas have not suffered dehydration. I have however seen it in true spiders.

In refrence to 2 + 4: Does a Doctor need to experience an illness to diagnose it? Does the researcher need to have the illness to understand its mode of action?

"Anyone who has watched insects or animals living their lives freely in the open knows that they do not always do their everyday duties in the same way; that there are in each population conservatives and radicals, stupid, brilliant, mediocre, and probably insane individuals" - Rau, 1933
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Old 17-01-2013, 08:44 AM
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The way I see it is Dyskinetic Syndrome is a symptom and not a disease in itself - dyskinetic just means "disordered movement"

A person seen moving dyskinetically could have Parkinsons Disease, they could have had a stroke, they could have sprained an ankle, they could be drunk or maybe their shoes are rubbing their feet! All those have different causes and are of different degrees of severity, but all could appear similar to a casual glance

Seeing disordered movement in a tarantula is often a precursor to it dying. But is the "DKS" the actual cause of the spider's decline and demise, or is it a symptom of another underlying problem? Spiders sometimes die without showing any movement problems. I have never lost a spider to "DKS" but I've lost some others. I lost an adult P. subfusca just a week or so ago for no obvious reason. She's been kept in the same conditions for the last 3 years and thrived, including dropping a good sac 2 years ago. Conversely I used to have a B. boehmei who would "spazz" at any disturbance. She actually looked like she was having a seizure. If I'd posted a video on here there would have been cries of "oh it's DKS"! I used to keep her in a different room which isn't used very often to minimise her funny turns, but she didn't die. I gave her to somebody and she is still doing well.

Without controlled studies being done regarding the actions of various substances on a group of spiders - be it Frontline contamination, locusts, tap water or all the other possibles which seem to get passed around as fact in the hobby, it's just supposition.

IMO it's a bit of a no-brainer that a substance like Frontline which is sold to control fleas and also ticks (which are arachnids) isn't going to be beneficial to your Ts if they come into contact with it.
Poxicator, GRB and callum b like this.

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