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Adam B Jones 20-09-2013 07:34 PM


Originally Posted by Adam B Jones (Post 11524434)
There are many non native species in the UK, and I'm sure within the EU as well. Some of these are invasive, in the sense that they out-compete native species of flora and fauna, which can have a dramatic snowball effect - Signal crayfish, American Mink, Himalayan Balsam, Japanese Knotweed, Giant Hogweed, and the Killer shrimp (Which I forget the proper name of), being the main ones on the list in the UK.

I doubt if tarantulas or the associated animals, eg. crickets etc, would be classed as potentially invasive, as I wouldn't think they'd make it through a winter in the wild - but then perhaps some of them might, plus there are obviously human inhabited structures where some of these animals may thrive... hmmm.. I'll have to have a read of the article!

Not sure how I managed to forget grey squirrels!!

GirlyEvo8 25-10-2013 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by chris newman (Post 11499219)
the draft legislation for the eu invasive alien species regulation has just gone live on the europa website:

environment: New eu action to protect biodiversity against problematic invasive species

the proposals need to be studied in great detail but at first glance this is the bit i don’t much like…..!!

chapter ii
article 7

ban on invasive alien species of union concern

1. Species included on the list referred to in article 4(1) shall not be intentionally:

(a) brought into or transited through the union territory;
(b) permitted to reproduce;
(c) transported, except for the transportation of species to facilities for eradication;
(d) placed on the market;
(e) used or exchanged;
(f) kept or grown, including in contained holding;
(g) released into the environment.

i dont see the point in this, i remember when they were thinking about banning most exotic reps, or i believe it was some types of snakes, im not sure now, but pretty sure 90% of the people i know signed against the petition

Adam B Jones 26-10-2013 02:04 AM

It's just because there are some species that are such a worry due to the devastating effects they have on indigenous flora and fauna, coupled with the fact that it is impossible to eradicate some of them. The money being spent by the EU on eradicating/managing species already introduced is huge. Seriously huge. And it's not really working that well for a lot of the species! So I guess they want to tighten down to help prevent further damage...

GRB 29-10-2013 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by Adam B Jones (Post 11595067)
coupled with the fact that it is impossible to eradicate some of them.

Yep. Half the time I don't see the point - half the time it leads people to wipe out benign organisms in fear they are exotic (e.g. our native ladybirds confused for Harlequin ones, and native flatworms assumed to be NZ flatworms).

I'm all for increased regulation of the pet industry, but frankly if they want to stop invasive species they need to sort out ballast from ships and the horticulture industry at a higher priority. Fruit and veg importation too.

The amount of invasive species from pet ownership - I can think of less than a dozen. The compare that to what happened from Horticulture - Rhodedendrons being the obvious one, Japanese Knotweed etc. When I was out in SA, a good chunk of the springtails you found were of EU origin - they came across with the Dutch settlers when they imported european plants.

Adam B Jones 29-10-2013 04:13 PM

It's definitely a lot to do with gardening waste/spill over as you say, but also people just letting things go - Bullheads, crayfish, mink, terrapins etc, which is why I think it's best to be careful not to let things out into the wild AT ALL even if it's unlikely they will survive.

The first people who let crayfish go probably thought, "Ah well, I don't see it will cause too much harm, plus we'll make a few quid selling them for food", and look what happened!

The invasive management programs I've had experience with have been very good, using qualified people to run projects, most of which are supervised and all the people involved must be specifically trained. This has however been in relation to conservation of freshwater bodies/catchments. For himalayan balsam on river banks it's more a case of number management than eradication - at the moment - but there is some pretty cool stuff in the process of being invented/implemented to try and help... Japanese knotweed seems possible to eradicate, as does giant hogweed, from what I've learned. They are still working on the crayfish issue it seems.... I'm afraid I'm not too clued up on the non-native ladybirds etc, but that does sound a very difficult situation, and potentially an easy one to get wrong in the process of eradication, so I can see why, and fully agree that it's best to do whatever possible to prevent further damage, yet I doubt it will mean a ban on exotics, as the people who are deciding the rules will have sound information from specialists such as biologists, ecologists etc. Maybe we won't be able to have certain feeder items, but it may be possible to come up with alternatives.

In terms of pets, if they are talking about dangers of damaging ecosystems, they'd also do well to have a long think about good old house cats.


Greenway 16-11-2013 10:41 PM

How many of the species on the list do they expect to survive in British conditions in the wild?
It's another scaremongering tactic To let people know ''the government control you''. I'm sorry this may sound really conspiracy theorist type stuff, But those of us/you who are happy to and love to keep inverts and reps despite public opinion, aren't likely to take government policies to heart or vote or anything (opinion not fact)

So they try once again to hit people where it hurts. ''we have a demographic who are strong willed and dont give a shite about us- we'll control them''

If it's about people who let non - native inverts into the wild- then those legislative rules have been in place for AGES. And everyone ( I reckon) abides by them. If it's about telling people what pets they can and can't keep, even if it's responsibly, then I think it's rank. Invert keepers are generally more knowledgeable than dog or cat owners. Cats are indiscriminate killers. ( I have a cat) Yet again a case of people having no clue. If their border oficers did a better job than letting snakes and spiders in bananas into tesco, we'd be alright. As it is. If someone came to my home offering to kill my T, I'd offer them to hold her.

(psychotic Lp)

Adam B Jones 06-12-2013 07:44 AM

I really don't think it's got anything to do with scaremongering or control. It's probably more to do with the 12billion Euros it costs per year already, and not wanting to increase that cost.

There are about 12,000 non-native species within Europe, and 15% of these are considered invasive - ie. a threat - thats 1800 species... across the whole of Europe...

The list of 50 of these species which are considered to be of highest concern hasn't been finalized yet - and each country will be drawing up their "most wanted" species in accordance with scientific and ecological data/specialists. Although if that is the case, then the domestic cat should rightly be on the list.

Anyway, remember it includes plants as well, which have generally been more dramatic in their damage, although this is arguable depending on what knock on effects you are talking about in relation to which invasive species, not forgetting of course, the good old bottom line of effect on economy.

It is also stated that under no circumstances would any currently owned pets be destroyed. It would just mean that they couldn't be bred, traded, or imported after a window period following the announcement of the list. So that would mean that in the unlikely event of most popular exotics being on the list, that everybody will be selling things off very cheaply, or very expensively, depending on the popularity/demand for the species.

I fear terrapins may make the list, but I think cats definitely should, but I doubt they will, because despite the devastation they cause, they don't have wild breeding populations, and there's probably just too much money in them to ban them - which would be immoral and hypocritical of the EU considering the whole reasons behind this new initiative. I would say it is more in instances like this that there is unscrupulous goings on, as opposed to trying to scaremonger and control us.

Basically what I'm saying is they aren't just messing about choosing things to ban for fun because it would spoil peoples enjoyment - it's a serious issue that they don't want to let any further out of control - although it already is...

Adam B Jones 06-12-2013 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by Greenway (Post 11637991)
How many of the species on the list do they expect to survive in British conditions in the wild?

Not to be cruel and deflate your balloon, but I'd say every single species that is on the British list - which is why they are on the list.... How many of the British list would make the final overall European 50 most wanted, I don't know. But in terms of "British" exotic pets that are currently listed as having been introduced, I'm not sure how many there are, but it's not many - certainly terrapins, perhaps some frogs/birds?

Metamorphosis 05-04-2015 05:29 PM

I must say the thought of this ban is stupid, not stupid as a concept, we all wish to protect what wildlife we haven't built over yet , and probably not policeable once underway, but I wish they would consult more with keepers ( who do care for our own wildlife) about what needs sorting out, we have our fingers on the pulse of our hobby and are more aware of real potential threats, as an example I hear the terrapin quoted quite a lot as an invasive species, this must come from people that have never kept any, as far as I am aware there have been no cases of them breeding in the UK in the wild, so how would it be classed as invasive ? As usual we have to let the politian's have their thunder and then we have to rally around and pick up the pieces ;)

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