I was emailed the above two photos with the following...
Please see attached 4' and 5' vivs. Note - Hinges showing will not be used
as too costly (£10. each!) Other quality hinges will be used in place. Prices All Cages are 600 deep and 380 high unless you ask for special one offs in
which case email or call me for details.
I certainly wont be opening my wallet for these, anyone else got any thoughts?
I dont think they look too bad, not all that different to most of the american ones. I agree at that money id buy a herptek, there isnt much in it and I know the herptek ones are quality, whereas Ive never seen one of these "in the flesh" as it were.
Hi sorry not getting back sooner but - quite busy right now - with building of the APAH Vivs.
Ok to answer all of your questions.
Certainly plastic being plastic scatches. No matter what plastic it is - it will scratch.
I personally reaserched of what material would be best for keeping my boas in. I came up with Polypropylene. I give all the reasons below.
As a cabinet maker a much more cheaper way of producing quality vivs would have been out of Ply etc Problem is - as I am sure a lot of you know - no matter how you coat your vivs - sooner or later that uric acid creeps into the joins and boy does that smell! no way can you get it out.
Anyone who still uses wood or melamine, MDF, faces a big problem of smells, plus it is definetley not the best way in regards health for you snake/reptile. Not a sales pitch ,just the truth.
I looked at all the altetnatives. The only plastic ones available - I was not happy with. fine if you are only keeping one or two boids - but if you have a room full of boids - you need to find the best soloution fot the boids and you.
I tried a racking system. I found this to be unsuitable for me as you need the extra space for opening the draw.
Sooo - next best thing was to produce my own.
One thing leads to another- now I find myself retailing them.
The sizes suite me. Beleive me when I said I reaserched. I contacted boid breeders in the U.S.A. and U.K (successfull ones) and asked them what size cages would they like there boas to be kept in for succesfull breeding/keeping.
Most preferd the 1500 size for female boas and the 900 for male. Yes this may suprise you. Obviously for the well grown on females the 1800 vivs .
As my pricing goes firstly here is a link - http://www.livefoodshop.co.uk/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t34670.html
here is a reply what was posted on the link.
"As someone who has been trying to launch a range of plastic vivs for the last 3 years, let me give you a little insight into the costs of plastic vivariums.
Tooling for each size of vivarium, whether it be for vacuum formings or roto mouldings run at a starting cost of around £10,000. Thats for each size.
Plastic prices are based around oil prices. When you consider that a 4' Herptek weighs over 25 kilos and the plastic costs around £5 per kilo there is little room to absorb tooling costs.
Add to that the CNC programes to be written to cut all the holes out and the costs of the track, the ventilation and the toughened glass doors and the labour to put them together and you will see why they are not cheap!
Then they have to be shipped around and thats not cheap, being a big box that doesnt stack.
Phew, must stop for a breath!
So there you have it, in short it is not commercially viable.
Herptek Vivs, whilst not being cheap, believe you me, are not much more than cost. Take into consideration the tooling costs and I would be surprised if they ever break even!
Finally, with injection mouldings the tools are even more expensive as you have a male and female tool.
I can tell you that the tooling for a well known plastic box used for snake keeping in racks cost over £100,000!
Hope that helps to understand the situation.
Its not that manufacturers are oblivious to the need for plastic vivs, but they just can't afford to make them!
This may give you some understanding of how much they cost to produce. ,just the hardware costs alone come to £35 on the 1800 viv.
The good news is - I have adjusted my prices - yes Iam a sucker I know.
Hopefully these prices you will find Suitable.
All Cages are 600 deep and 380 high unless you ask for special one offs in
which case email or call me for details.
We here at APAH are totally confident that you will not find a better or equal Vivarium/cage for your reptiles anywhere else here in the UK..
1830 £350 – reduced £325
1500 £265 - reduced £255
1200 £230 - reduced £210
900 £210 - reduced £190
600 £190. - reduced £175
APAH Vivs are Polypropylene. Polypropylene is a petroleum industry by-product which has excellent strength and is very resistant to abrasion.
• Excellent resistance to most acids and alkalis.
• Good resistance to bleaches and solvents.
• Not attacked by mildew.
• Good resistance to aging, indirect sunlight, and abrasion.
Polypropylene is safe for your reptiles it can be used in food processing applications. This is self-extinguishing material with a melting temperature of 325-350 degrees F so you don't have to worry about a fire hazard.
We have designed our doors (6mm acrylic) so there is enough room (approx 4mm) around the doors for ventilation, this makes for great heat and humidity retention. .. If you have a reptile that likes a more arid climate you can simply drill vent holes in the back of the cage with a standard drill and bit, this is not brittle plastic
Our doors drop open design makes it so they can not bind shut under the weight of heavy bodied snakes. They open completely, dropping flat to the face of the cage below so there is nothing in your way. Cages 6ft or larger have a center support and 2 doors for both strength and safety.
Colour Black – Unless you specify a colour of your choice. (you may have to place multiple order for any other colour than black as we do not hold these in stock.
Alan (APAH) All Plastic Animal Housing
Discount for Multiple/Trade Orders.
Carriage at your cost. (Hopefully I will have a price list for carriage some time this week.)
Note - Hinges showing will not be used
as too costly (£10. each!) Other quality hinges will be used in place.
Hope this answers most of you questions - now get rid of those horrible melemine ones and do something nice for your snake (and me) LOL
I think you are being too harsh Garysumpter, I looked into this myself as the US have many plastic vivs available and we have none barr Herptek and those cheap ones on ebay, The costs of materials are high and the guy just responded to ppl saying they were expensive and explained why. I cant comment on the look of these vivs as I have not seen them, this is just what we need in the UK and I knew someone would do it sooner or later they have to start somewhere as did Animal plastics, visioncages and boaphile. Whats wrong with them trying to promote sales on this public forum many shops and breeders do it.
I have been looking at vivarium production myself.
There ARE cheaper alternatives. The range we are working on runs in up to 16 foot lengths and costs the customer only slightly more than melamine!!
By all means by these, raptor by all means make them - BUT i gave up on this way of making them ages ago because of the cost issues.
Our range for hobbiests WILL be available within the next 6 months and i guarantee it will be cheaper than anything else like it on the market + it will last you just as long and come in any colour/design you want!!
I would like to thank reticulatus, and maki for there posetive replies.
Maybe I should have really explained that these are for the more serious breeder. Health of the animal in my opinion (and of others) is much more paramount than cosmetic looks. Garysumpter - you firstly say "Yes the snakes health is paramount, but the cosmetic side is important" I dont want to carry this on - but it is clear to me the look of how your vivs look is more important to you. After all you go on to say "Melamine vivs may rot, smell or whatever after a long time, but they are VERY inexpensive to replace if need be.
Ah well just goes to show - you cant please all the people all the time!.
Hey reticulatus good luck with you new production- sounds GREAT!
I think they look very similar to the boaphiles, so i dont know why gary dislikes the looks so much :? Cant please em all - frankly i'd rather have a viv that didnt warp, smell etc and didnt need replacing all the time, so plastics definately have a place in my housing plans.
Interested in hearing what Dan's will be like too when they're ready...