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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Title isn't as serious as it sounds...

Back story:
My bf and I bought our Noa earlier last year after we fell in love with some pictures of him. We forked out the money to get him all started up and continued to fall in love with him more and more as he came to us, settled in and began to grow his personality. My bf's sister's bf Adam (at the time) thought he was wicked and decided he wanted his own.. Soooo we asked him for the money for it, and bought him everything he needed, including a lot of advice which was passed to me from my beardie-guru friend and the internet.
Months passed and we just hear stories about his beardie. How much he's grown, how he eats sooo much and so well. But then one story I hear is "But he's nowhere near as heavy as yours".. yet he's claiming he's bigger than ours now? Hmm.
Then it comes to babysitting his beardie this past week...
Sadly to say his beardie Delilah (who we now call Dil, as it's a boy) was underweight, clearly skinny and quite lethargic. I quickly changed this with some nice morioworms, locusts and baby leaf salad.
It turned out he was feeding Dil BABY sized crickets and locusts! Upon telling him Dil should be eating bigger, he shook his head and said that he's been told by people Dil shouldn't be eating large food now...
Dil is 16" long and only a few months old.. I smacked myself in the face for him to be believing this.
So I tried feeding Dil the baby sized crickets. Guess what... he ignored them, clearly too small to bother with, which just left them crawling all over. Such a f'in nightmare to pick out before bed (which I doubt he does, even though I told him about crix being able to bite if left in...)
Now I've grown really attached to Dil whilst feeding him up, giving him baths, washing his tail (that was covered in poo somehow) and what not. It doesn't feel right in my stomach to give Dil back knowing he'd go back to eating food he'd only eat out of desperation.
Adam (the owner) actually said to my bf's sister "Don't listen to Hannah (me), I've been told he can't eat big food, please don't feed him big food, he throws up when he eats mealworms, he's like my baby, please"
THROWS UP!? Then why haven't you taken him to the vets I'm thinking...
But guess what... no vomit to be seen at all, even after he devoured a helluva lot of morioworms, quite happily and readily might I add.

I left Adam a message of :

You really need to start feeding Delilah proper sized food once you get him back, or I won't be happy to give him back... he was way too thin and lethargic... you're not saving money buying tiny, baby-sized food that he doesn't even eat. The crickets just end up dying in there or biting him. He should be eating medium sized crickets and large sized locusts by now. Whoever told you he's not ready for larger food is talking s**t basically. He's WELL over 6 inches long and can happily digest pretty much anything now.
If you can't afford the food because of your job and stuff going on right now, he's more than welcome to stay here until you're sorted out with everything. He is going through a lot of food so I can understand it's expensive.


To which he promptly ignored and removed from his facebook profile...

I need to know what to do... do I do the slightly unmoral thing and refuse to give him back until he listens to my feeding advice? or do I just give him back whilst biting my tongue and dealing with the regret of a suffering animal being my fault?

Sorry for the super long post. Please read though and share your thoughts. How can I prove to someone that feeding their beardie tiny food is detrimental to it's health?
 

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I would say to him that you need to feed him the proper food or his "baby" could die. Also don't give it back until he proves he could
 

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Dont give him back, this guy is obviously more knowledgeable than you (not) but imo he should not have the privilege of owning a wonderful animal. It is not morally wrong to keep him, just sling the guy a big rock...he might be better off owning one of them!!!
 

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im not sure if simply not giving him back is an option , because if he phoned the police , wouldnt you technically be stealing his property?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
im not sure if simply not giving him back is an option , because if he phoned the police , wouldnt you technically be stealing his property?
Exactly, that's my problem. :/ I don't know a way around it, to get the info into his head, or to get him to allow me to keep Dil. I tried to be nice and suggested Dil could stay here for longer as he's having financial issues but that was also just ignored...
 

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i personally couldnt give it back either . i have been here with my current leo , but fortunatly that person didnt care and was happy to accept a few tenners to permanantly bugger off.

im not sure how much of an option getting advice from the rspca is. he may not be in better hands if they take him.
 

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The right thing to do by the animal is to not give him back or refuse to give him back until the owner feeds him correctly, and explain why he needs the bigger food.

The issue with this is that technically it is stealing. And also, if you refused to give the beardie back, would this effect your BF relationship with his sister?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The right thing to do by the animal is to not give him back or refuse to give him back until the owner feeds him correctly, and explain why he needs the bigger food.

The issue with this is that technically it is stealing. And also, if you refused to give the beardie back, would this effect your BF relationship with his sister?
Well they've actually broken up, and that doesn't help with him being sour about everything. I also added that us keeping Dil for longer might help him to stabilise emotionally better - you can't look after something else when you can't look after yourself hey... But my bf's sister is staying on the fence with it all. She's trying to remain a friend with her ex but also thinks Dil should eat better.

It's late, but feel free to comment on here with thoughts and suggestions on how to get someone to play nice and co-operate for the health of a beardie. I'll be back in the morn. Thanks to all for replying so quick already :)
 

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Just dont give it him back offer him money for the beardie and if he says no tell him do 1 and keep it then get intouch with the police and tell them why you refused give him the beardie back just incase he gets intouch with them and just see what happens
 

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im not sure if simply not giving him back is an option , because if he phoned the police , wouldnt you technically be stealing his property?

If the lizard is at your house and you are caring for it properly then he'd have a heck of a job getting it back.

To do it though you need proof he is an unfit keeper and refuses to feed adequatly. This would involve a lot of pictures and you keeping weight and food charts.

You'd also need to get a vet to check him over and confirm he is underweight / malnourished etc.

Remember the old addage. Posession is 9/10th of the law. But you'd also want to be careful as 'bricks break windows'

I'd take some advice from citizens advice if you really want to push it. Oddly 'even though I hate them with a passion' the RSPCA might be able to offer you some anon advice. Make sure its anon though or they might turn up and try their usuall trick of claiming a pet to either destroy or sell. They would know the legalities of it though.

Personally I'd tell the guy to sling his hook and unless he could prove to you that he has a clue then 'baby' stays where he is.
 

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heres five letters for you....

R.S.P.C.A.....

report him and hope that someone gives him/her a better life!!

thats the exacT word to describe it , HOPE.

after the stories ive read on here i wouldnt trust the rspca with a reptile anymore than i would a child with a gun.
you rfuk'rs really know how to scare me =O
 

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I wouldn't normally say this to anyone as us morally wrong but I have seen this done already and worked. Keep the beardie as he will prob not have papers to prove it is his plus all the set up is at yours so you have full possession. The police can't do anything apart from advise you to take the matter up in a civil court which will cost loads so I'm judging he won't want that. But as someone else said be careful as revenge is sweet
 

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Keep him, and report to RSPCA. Otherwise they could just go get another one.

We don't all know how to look after our pets straight away, which is why we come on places like this to ask for advice and help. Which we then follow.

An acquaintance of mine (brother in laws brother in law) got a beardie cos he thought they looked cool, but after a few months got bored of turning lights on, cleaning, feeding etc.

Poor little thing had been dead over a week when they eventually checked on him. I made the mistake of not reporting them, not seen them for a couple of years but hopefully they stuck to not having pets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
,
Keep him, and report to RSPCA. Otherwise they could just go get another one.

We don't all know how to look after our pets straight away, which is why we come on places like this to ask for advice and help. Which we then follow.

An acquaintance of mine (brother in laws brother in law) got a beardie cos he thought they looked cool, but after a few months got bored of turning lights on, cleaning, feeding etc.

Poor little thing had been dead over a week when they eventually checked on him. I made the mistake of not reporting them, not seen them for a couple of years but hopefully they stuck to not having pets.
Oh, poor thing....
I don't even know when Dil is supposed to be returning to him.. I'm hoping to get his number so I can talk to him directly, and when he comes to pick him up I should have correct sized food ready and empthasise that that's what he needs. We all do make mistakes and keeping a beardie is definitely a continuous learning experience, but when you start to think you're above others when your beardie isn't healthy is cheek. I could punch the person who supposedly told him his beardie wasn't ready for larger food.
 

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I would personally hang on to them for a while and get them fed up.
Get the lad over who owns the beardie and show him what you're feeding so he can quite clearly see with his own eyes that bigger is better.

Literally drop the bomb he is quite simply killing the animal by under feeding him and drop the line "Go big or home"

If that fails and he doesnt see or understand that what he is doing wrong then he is a fool and shouldnt be allowed to keep the poor blitter.
In that case, report him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I would personally hang on to them for a while and get them fed up.
Get the lad over who owns the beardie and show him what you're feeding so he can quite clearly see with his own eyes that bigger is better.

Literally drop the bomb he is quite simply killing the animal by under feeding him and drop the line "Go big or home"

If that fails and he doesnt see or understand that what he is doing wrong then he is a fool and shouldnt be allowed to keep the poor blitter.
In that case, report him.
Yeah, good idea. He is a happier beardie already, granted he isn't as full-steam-ahead as our Noa. still has a fuller belly two days later and a huge appetite, lol.
 

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What does anybody expect the RSPCA to do? Film the beardie eating proper sized crickets and running about having a ball. Then upload the film to Facebook and tag him in on it, if other people have told him that the food is too big, let Dil show him that the food is the right size and she's happy eating it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
What does anybody expect the RSPCA to do? Film the beardie eating proper sized crickets and running about having a ball. Then upload the film to Facebook and tag him in on it, if other people have told him that the food is too big, let Dil show him that the food is the right size and she's happy eating it.
That is an excellent idea. I wish I did record him eating all his previous meals now.. I think Adam may be turning around - I, my bf and my bf's mother have all told him Dil needs to eat bigger. Adam's actually picking him up today so we're going to give him the locusts we have left over (Dil's eaten a whole pot already and around 30 morios) and tell him Dil has been eating them fine and hopefully Adam will see how filled out Dil is now. i'd still prefer to see the lil guy with more muscle growth on his legs but I can advise more baths for that, and perhaps more opportunities for Dil to climb.. we drape a dressing gown over a mound of pillows and Noa loves to explore that so yeah.
Ty for all your thoughts and feelings, private and publicly alike. I personally didn't want to go as strong as rspca or stealing, so was mostly looking for ideas like Meko's.
 

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Maybe offer to take the Beardie to the vets with him? They will weigh him and test for parasites etc as part of the check up. It's the responsible thing to do every year or so even if he doesn't believe Dil's health is suffering. It doesn't sound like this guy is intentionally neglecting his Beardie (he just sounds incredibly mis educated). If he does care about the dragon as much as he claims, you'd hope he'd respect a professional second opinion. I completely understand your concern though and it winds me up when people fail to see they're not taking proper care of an animal. Kudos for being responsible and attempting to feed him up, let us know how you get on.
 
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