[Mr Madagascar]

I am being asked frequently about how Brexit will affect bringing reptiles and amphibians to / from Europe to the UK.
The simple answer, like so much around the issue, is that nobody knows for certain how legislation will pan out.
There is a risk that, if the border with the EU becomes more 'hard', it may be much more difficult and expensive to move reptiles between the then separated areas. Paperwork may be required that isn't now.
No-one can say, as yet.

If that happens it may make many species harder to obtain in the UK and more expensive.
No-one knows.

There are only a couple of shows before Brexit comes into effect.
Why take the risk?
If you want something the best course of action is to transport it now.

www.interep.co.uk

 

[ian14]

CITES species will require export and import permits. So all purchases of pythons and boas for a start will need to be planned for as correct CITES permits will be needed. It is my understanding that this is likely to be rigorously enforced by UK Border Agency.

 

[Chileryx]

Is that something we know that is definitely going to happen? I feared something like this could be on the cards. The UK hobby is already dire when it comes to uncommon Boas and Pythons, I hope this won't impact these niches hard, but...

 

[ian14]

Is that something we know that is definitely going to happen? I feared something like this could be on the cards. The UK hobby is already dire when it comes to uncommon Boas and Pythons, I hope this won't impact these niches hard, but...

Yes it will. The only reason that we don't have this currently is because we are in the EU and an agreement was made that due to free movement once a species enters an EU country no further permits are needed to move within the EU.
But in March 2019 we cease to be a member, but are still a CITES member. Therefore permits will be needed to import and export Appendix I and II species.
What's isn't clear is if we will revert to the pure form of CITES and use Appendices or stick to the EU CITES Annexes. There are a few very subtle differences between them.

 

[Chileryx]

As I had feared. Hopefully it's still doable for those hobbyists with uncommon Boids and Varanids. The morph obsessed folk into their Balls and Boa will have it easier I'm sure.

Are you aware of or have any theories as to how Brexit would effect driving back from Hamm expos with non-CITES species?

 

[ian14]

As I had feared. Hopefully it's still doable for those hobbyists with uncommon Boids and Varanids. The morph obsessed folk into their Balls and Boa will have it easier I'm sure.

Are you aware of or have any theories as to how Brexit would effect driving back from Hamm expos with non-CITES species?

The only restriction on international trade is CITES. Non CITES species will have the exact same import requirements as they do now.
Ironically it is the ball morph hobby that will be hardest hit, as they will need permits to import from EU shows.

 

[Chileryx]

Ball pythons are imported to the UK from the US and have a large industry behind them to make imports a regular occurrence. It'll make life harder for the breeders but it's the obscure species that don't have that widespread and commercialized presence that will suffer from this more, especially in the long term. This has been the way it is between the EU and US hobbies for decades. I was really hoping the UK hobby wouldn't be isolated like this too, but sounds like it will be. :bash:

 

[harry python]

Easiest solution to get something back to the Uk is to arrange for one of the many herpers from the republic of Ireland to bring it back for you. In the event of no deal I am sure they will make a few quid from being able to do this.

 

[ian14]

Easiest solution to get something back to the Uk is to arrange for one of the many herpers from the republic of Ireland to bring it back for you. In the event of no deal I am sure they will make a few quid from being able to do this.

Just what the hobby needs - someone publically suggesting smuggling animals!!
And how would that work. You would still need an export and import permit to get them from Republic of Ireland into the UK. Any smuggled in this way will end up getting seized.
I can guarantee that there will be a big increase in scrutiny when it comes to this. UKBF are well aware of Hamm and Houten, and all the little tricks people try!
New legislation creates an offence of transporting species, not just buying and selling them.
It also allows for the Home Office to determine which ports are allowed to admit CITES species, which means there will be specially trained customs officers there to inspect all imports.

 

[harry python]

Just what the hobby needs - someone publically suggesting smuggling animals!!
And how would that work. You would still need an export and import permit to get them from Republic of Ireland into the UK. Any smuggled in this way will end up getting seized.
I can guarantee that there will be a big increase in scrutiny when it comes to this. UKBF are well aware of Hamm and Houten, and all the little tricks people try!
New legislation creates an offence of transporting species, not just buying and selling them.
It also allows for the Home Office to determine which ports are allowed to admit CITES species, which means there will be specially trained customs officers there to inspect all imports.

UKBF are struggling to keep illegal migrants swamping the UK without extra responsibilities for animal catching.

 

[ian14]

UKBF are struggling to keep illegal migrants swamping the UK without extra responsibilities for animal catching.

They have had a specialist team enforcing CITES for many years.
The new legislation also allows for specific ports to be designated for CITES imports and exports, so trained and experienced specialist staff will always be on hand.

 

[Marcia]

This is certainly baffling. How will this affect people bringing animals into the UK from Hamm? Although I believe the next one will be the last before the laws change although I could be wrong.
I've only ever had a small handful of geckos brought into the UK from Canada via Hamm but that was a few years ago but either way, I'm keeping an eye on this thread for more info as it'll develop.

 

[ian14]

This is certainly baffling. How will this affect people bringing animals into the UK from Hamm? Although I believe the next one will be the last before the laws change although I could be wrong.
I've only ever had a small handful of geckos brought into the UK from Canada via Hamm but that was a few years ago but either way, I'm keeping an eye on this thread for more info as it'll develop.

It's not baffling at all. The current situation is due to the UK being an EU member state, and with the EU having no internal barriers to trade, this includes movement of CITES species.
When we leave we are no longer part of that trade and so permits will be required.
This may of course still change but my understanding is that the UK leaves, any movement of CITES species will require an import permit from the UK, and given the model that the EU have, an export permit will also have to issued from them.

 

[Marcia]

It's not baffling at all. The current situation is due to the UK being an EU member state, and with the EU having no internal barriers to trade, this includes movement of CITES species.
When we leave we are no longer part of that trade and so permits will be required.
This may of course still change but my understanding is that the UK leaves, any movement of CITES species will require an import permit from the UK, and given the model that the EU have, an export permit will also have to issued from them.

So would you still require permits to bring animals into the country if they are not CITES species? I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, that's why I said I was a bit baffled :lol2:

 

[ian14]

So would you still require permits to bring animals into the country if they are not CITES species? I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, that's why I said I was a bit baffled :lol2:

No, if they are not CITES then you don't need CITES permits.

 

[colinm]

Surely we will still need export and import documentation for non CITES species, much as we did before 1993 ?

 

[ian14]

Surely we will still need export and import documentation for non CITES species, much as we did before 1993 ?

I have no idea. I will try to get a definitive answer.

 

[colinm]

I suspect that all of this depends on what deal the UK gets, if any.

 

[Matt Harris]

The legislation which enforces CITES in the UK is being amended, so depending on how much detail you want to go into it, here is the explanatory memorandum for the changes in legislation:-


https://assets.publishing.service.g...ra__Amendment___EU_Exit__Regulations_2018.pdf


The Statutory Instrument which would amend COTES is also available, but it's fairly impenetrable:-


https://assets.publishing.service.g...ra__Amendment___EU_Exit__Regulations_2018.pdf


DEFRA have produced a Technical Note setting out what will happen if there's a 'no-deal' Brexit:-


https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...s-protected-by-cites-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

 

[ian14]

It already has been amended and ith the COTES Regs 1997 having been replaced with COTES Regs 2018.
There are some significant changes including the power to restrict imports and exports through specific ports, and civil sanctions.
Currently civil sanctions are not being used.
Another change is Reg 6, which requires all adverts for Annex A species to use nclude the A10 number. However I am also told that this is not yet being enforced, and I am awaiting confirmation either way.