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Ultimately as Toby says at the beginning no one knows what will happen post 29th March, so the only sure fire way to get what you want is have it arrive before then.


Harry python does have a point though (I would never advocate smuggling), however if the existing deal goes through and the backstop comes into force between ROI and NI that may be a legitimate route to bring animals from the continent (admittedly it has the obvious downsides that the route is longer so the animals will be in transit longer and due to more ferry crossings, distances etc the costs will be more)

If the border does slam shut and it becomes more difficult there is of course a potential upside which is that it will be harder to smuggle animals which in turn will force people to purchase captive bred animals in the UK which in a round about way will potentially help wild populations (That's my trying to put a half glass full spin on things!)
 

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Ultimately as Toby says at the beginning no one knows what will happen post 29th March, so the only sure fire way to get what you want is have it arrive before then.
We do know what will happen though. We will be a CITES member on our own, so all imports and exports of CITES species will require permits. In addition, all imports from the EU will also require an export permit from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Cites

Yes, every indication at this stage is that, as of April, the UK will be leaving the zone where agreed mutual CITES legislation exists with the EU.
Therefore anyone hoping to get any python species, including royals, from an EU source (or take out to sell in Europe) will need to arrange CITES permits for each animal. This will therefore make the process more difficult and expensive than it is now, where no such process is needed.

The Hamm and Houten shows in March will therefore be the last opportunity to trade with the EU on the existing terms, unless something is altered in either the timescale or the plan of exit.

InteRep is already well booked up in anticipation of this.

www.interep.co.uk
 

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Yes, every indication at this stage is that, as of April, the UK will be leaving the zone where agreed mutual CITES legislation exists with the EU.
Therefore anyone hoping to get any python species, including royals, from an EU source (or take out to sell in Europe) will need to arrange CITES permits for each animal. This will therefore make the process more difficult and expensive than it is now, where no such process is needed.

The Hamm and Houten shows in March will therefore be the last opportunity to trade with the EU on the existing terms, unless something is altered in either the timescale or the plan of exit.

InteRep is already well booked up in anticipation of this.

www.interep.co.uk
Along with all boids, dart frogs, chelonia, the list goes on.
After 29/3, Hamm and Houten will no longer be the source of cheap animals.
Preplanning will be essential.
The new COTES Regs also allow DEFRA to determine which ports will be authorised to import CITES species.
I suspect these will be Dover for train and vehicle and Heathrow for air freight.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
No deal update

DEFRA / APHA have today advised that, in the event of a 'No Deal Brexit' scenario, current UK-issued Animal Transport Licenses would no longer be recognised at EU borders, meaning UK couriers won't be able to transport animals into the UK from Europe after March.

www.interep.co.uk
 

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DEFRA / APHA have today advised that, in the event of a 'No Deal Brexit' scenario, current UK-issued Animal Transport Licenses would no longer be recognised at EU borders, meaning UK couriers won't be able to transport animals into the UK from Europe after March.

www.interep.co.uk
Can you post a link to that advise please? I've had a look and cannot see anything. There is nothing to stop private individuals doing this,providing they have the necesssary export and import permits for CITES species.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
No deal, no transport

TM: I suppose it's okay for me to make public the content of the email sent to InteRep, as it details just such public information.
This is regard to the situation for Licensed transporters in the event of a No Deal scenario; the position hasn't changed since January of last year but the likelihood of it has...


Following the publication of technical notices in September 2018, on what will happen in the event of a no deal scenario, we want to draw your attention to the situation for Transport Authorisations and what you will need to do in order to continue to export live animals to the EU after day 1 in the event of no deal.

In January 2018, the EU commission confirmed that in the event of a no deal scenario when the UK exits the EU, they will no longer accept Transporter Authorisation, Certificates of Competence or Vehicle Approval Certificates issued by the UK authority. A link to the notice can be found here: https://ec.europa.eu/food/sites/food/files/animals/docs/notice_brexit_animal_transport.pdf

Defra have been working to ensure this information is communicated to all relevant stakeholders and have published a series of Technical Notices, which can be viewed on the links below. In addition to transporter authorisation, the technical notices will provide additional information on other processes which may impact upon you or your business.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/how-to-prepare-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-with-no-deal
Exporting Animals and animal products is there’s no Brexit Deal
Importing Animals and animal products is there’s no Brexit Deal
Taking horses abroad if there is no Brexit deal

In the event of a no deal scenario, any transporter wishing to transport live animals into the EU will need to obtain new transport documentation issued by one of the EU27 Members States.
UK transporters wishing to transport live animals in the EU would need to appoint a representative within an EU country and apply to their relevant government department to obtain a valid Transporter Authorisation, Certificate of Competence, Vehicle Approval Certificate and, where necessary, a Journey Log.
Journey logs will need to be obtained from both APHA and the EU country that is the initial point of entry into the EU for export. Exporters would need to present their transport documentation at a Border Inspection Post in the EU.
UK-issued transport documentation would remain valid for transport within the UK only.
 

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Getting closer to decree nisi with 3 months to go.
Last I saw on this recently was that animals will have to be processed through the border force office at Ashford truck stop.
Anybody anything more concrete on this as when I contacted border force main office at Dover they appeared to know nothing about this and just attached me a load of links to the government web site, to go back in a circle round the documents I have already read, in order to get in touch with them.
Is it just me or has anybody else tried contacting border force, defra, APHA etc to try and get some cast iron clarity on paperwork, procedures, cost etc and just got the brush of to government documents that don't answer your questions?
 

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Getting closer to decree nisi with 3 months to go.
Last I saw on this recently was that animals will have to be processed through the border force office at Ashford truck stop.
Anybody anything more concrete on this as when I contacted border force main office at Dover they appeared to know nothing about this and just attached me a load of links to the government web site, to go back in a circle round the documents I have already read, in order to get in touch with them.
Is it just me or has anybody else tried contacting border force, defra, APHA etc to try and get some cast iron clarity on paperwork, procedures, cost etc and just got the brush of to government documents that don't answer your questions?
It will depend on the species. CITES species will have to be imported at a designated port. A truck stop is not a port.
I suspect the reason you are not getting answers is because APHA and DEFRA don't know themselves! They have no reason to not tell you. Once they have a final and definitive answer they will tell you. The final EU/UK deal has not yet been finalised and until then, these departments will be in the dark as you are.
The only thing we do know is that any CITES species will require permits, both import and export.
Domestic legislation (COTES Regs) states that specific ports will be designated for import and export of CITES specimens, which makes perfect sense as it means that you will have expert Border Force officers dealing with the shipment.
 

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It will depend on the species. CITES species will have to be imported at a designated port. A truck stop is not a port.
I suspect the reason you are not getting answers is because APHA and DEFRA don't know themselves! They have no reason to not tell you. Once they have a final and definitive answer they will tell you. The final EU/UK deal has not yet been finalised and until then, these departments will be in the dark as you are.
The only thing we do know is that any CITES species will require permits, both import and export.
Domestic legislation (COTES Regs) states that specific ports will be designated for import and export of CITES specimens, which makes perfect sense as it means that you will have expert Border Force officers dealing with the shipment.

Just checked again and the latest update was specific to the Channel tunnel https://www.gov.uk/guidance/moving-...vBy8T2nIBrGywQE9tX7IGPcbqUKZ_fH-6jcPIqzQ0hYRw
 

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That seems fine but you still have to negotiate the French side. I cant see them being particularly helpful.
 

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That seems fine but you still have to negotiate the French side. I cant see them being particularly helpful.

When I have come back through the tunnel I have never been stopped for a check by the French, only UK officials at the final barrier. I would imagine if stopped by the French there will only be a problem if you don't have all the required paperwork, Cities and proof of purchase. If not in order your probably up shit Creek. Way the tunnel checks work I imagine you will be required to declare to UK officials on the French side that you are importing animals so that your details can be forwarded on to the Ashford truck stop office. What there is no mention of is whether there is a charge involved in this administration. Also still nothing announced for other routes.
 
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I have made plans to bring in CITES animals from Europe prior to the end of the year to avoid any issues with import or export permits.
 

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Getting ever closer. Just 2 whole months left before new arrangements. Remember to quote importing commodity code 0106200000 on your import documentation.
 
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I wasn't aware of the commodity code.

I don't think people fully appreciate the full extent of the implications on bringing animals from Europe come the turn of the year. I can foresee some confiscations on the horizon - no through any malicious intent but through ignorance.

It is the reptile commodity code you need to enter on your import documentation for imported reptiles from the Eu from 01 January 2021. Also not to be forgotten your 20% Vat that will need to be paid.
 

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If the plans they had in place last year are going to be the same from January you will need paperwork from the exporting country for cities annex A,B & C. None for Annex D. Also prior notification to APHA ahead of import so they can issue their documentation for the same Appendices which they then email to the seller and exporter country. Seems no health certificate will be required for imported reptiles.
 
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Yes - gone will be the 'spur of the moment' purchase at a European Show -that could be a positive or negative thing depending on how you look at it.


If the plans they had in place last year are going to be the same from January you will need paperwork from the exporting country for cities annex A,B & C. None for Annex D. Also prior notification to APHA ahead of import so they can issue their documentation for the same Appendices which they then email to the seller and exporter country. Seems no health certificate will be required for imported reptiles.
 

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Yes - gone will be the 'spur of the moment' purchase at a European Show -that could be a positive or negative thing depending on how you look at it.
I said this last year.
As of January 1st we will cease to have free trade of goods.
So all CITES specimens wi have to have an export permit from the EU state that it is being sent from AND an import permit from the UK.
Additionally they can only be brought in via a designated CITES port.
Another point to consider is that the EU has its own version of CITES, using Annexes whereas CITES itself uses Appendices. Only the EU has 4 layers of protection, Annex A to D, whereas CITES worldwide has three, Appendix I to III.
As a result some species within the EU are Annex A but Appendix II elsewhere. So for example to sell, buy or advertise for sale javelin sand boas,in the EU, you need an Article 10 certificate as they are Annex A so are treated as if they are Appendix I. However the species is in fact Appendix II for any other country!
Annex D specimens do still require authority for export.

Day trips to the continent to buy from shows will become a minefield unless you know the CITES Regulations, annexes and appendices.
 
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