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Yes - gone will be the 'spur of the moment' purchase at a European Show -that could be a positive or negative thing depending on how you look at it.

Yup the inability to make purchases on the day of a show was the first thing I thought of. Never mind after all the years that Brits have been tripping over there is plenty of surplus stock available over here and probably more than can be sold with the economy imploding and folk losing their jobs.
 

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Have been doing more digging on this with the APHA today and impulse buys may still be possible from the EU shows if they have a vet resident on the show who can sign a intra trade certificate. Given they have one at Houten who signs for all incoming show stock for a modest fee likely he/she can also sort out intra trade certification. Whereby buyer can then send electronic notification to Defra to obtain import reference number to present at UK entry.
 

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Whereby buyer can then send electronic notification to Defra to obtain import reference number to present at UK entry.
Needed to do more research - DEFRA's opening hours are Monday - Friday 8.30 - 5.00pm is a bit pointless at a weekend show on the continent :whistling2:

Personally I think you are clutching at straws where impulse purchases are concerned... Given the closure of DEFRAs office there is little point in getting the show's vet to complete the paperwork.

I would also suspect that copies of all the import and export paperwork will have to be sent in advance as hard copies rather than electronically, but that would need further investigation, and as I have no real intent to bring in a snake from europe in the new year is something I will leave fo those who do to investigate
 

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Needed to do more research - DEFRA's opening hours are Monday - Friday 8.30 - 5.00pm is a bit pointless at a weekend show on the continent :whistling2:

Personally I think you are clutching at straws where impulse purchases are concerned... Given the closure of DEFRAs office there is little point in getting the show's vet to complete the paperwork.

I would also suspect that copies of all the import and export paperwork will have to be sent in advance as hard copies rather than electronically, but that would need further investigation, and as I have no real intent to bring in a snake from europe in the new year is something I will leave fo those who do to investigate

Not so. They are organising all this electronically and by self declaration. So if it works as they hope, once you input your submission via IPAFFS on your government gateway account it is all set up. Only difficulty is a 24 hour notification, so another overnight stay before heading back home.
 

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Have been doing more digging on this with the APHA today and impulse buys may still be possible from the EU shows if they have a vet resident on the show who can sign a intra trade certificate. Given they have one at Houten who signs for all incoming show stock for a modest fee likely he/she can also sort out intra trade certification. Whereby buyer can then send electronic notification to Defra to obtain import reference number to present at UK entry.
Nope.
You need to have all permits in place.
Its not a case of just letting DEFRA know you are importing.
For a CITES permit to be issued the Scientific Authority has to satisfy the Management Authority that the specific trade being applied for will not have a detrimental impact. They have to give whats called a Non Dertriment Finding.
Once that's been done the Management Authority can then issue the permits.
There is no such thing as an intra trade certificate for transaction of CITES specimens between Member Parties.
Such documents may suffice for non CITES specimens. But CITES specimens must have the right permits in place, specifying species, sex and number per transaction.
I suspect that there will be a fair few people getting their Hamm and Houten purchases seized on entry to the UK.
 

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Not so. They are organising all this electronically and by self declaration. So if it works as they hope, once you input your submission via IPAFFS on your government gateway account it is all set up. Only difficulty is a 24 hour notification, so another overnight stay before heading back home.
Not for CITES species. The UK has a legal obligation to enforce this. So self declaration is ot going to happen.
It is very very simple.
If you are intending to import a CITES specimen from the EU into the UK fro 1/1/21, you must have the correct permits in place. Otherwise they will be seized.
And a reminder again. There will be specified ports to bring them in through. Try elsewhere, lose those animals.
The legislation is not new, it has been in place since 1997. Its called the Control of Trade in Endangered Species Regulations 1997. As a member party to CITES, the UK must have domestic legislation to enforce the treaty. The simple change is that we and the EU have parted ways and no longer have a common trade policy, so the EU becomes a foreign member party just like everyone else
Have a read of the COTES Regs.
 

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To see if I can get something definitive on this I have emailed defra, apha and euexit cities and stated I am importing a Royal Python from the Nederlands on 04 January 2021 and asked them to specify the procedure I will have to follow. All have sent back a auto response and state they will get back to me within 10 days. which usually means sending more links to the government website.
 

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To see if I can get something definitive on this I have emailed defra, apha and euexit cities and stated I am importing a Royal Python from the Nederlands on 04 January 2021 and asked them to specify the procedure I will have to follow. All have sent back a auto response and state they will get back to me within 10 days. which usually means sending more links to the government website.
I doubt that you will get the response you are seeking. Each one will provide you with links to other authorities and government sites, so you'll just be chasing your tail and coming to your own interpretation and conclusions. It may be prudent to sit on the phone for a few hours to cut out the chase, and then seek whatever confirmation given verbally in an e-mail.

One possible direction would be to contact any of the couriers such as Cold blooded movements to name one. I'm sure that as their business is in transporting reptiles around the EU and UK that they would have some idea on how this affects their business and what requirements are for their customers... last thing that they want to happen is become liable for having a customers prize six gene royal seized at the port of entry because they had the wrong or incomplete paperwork.

Taking out the CITES element, I still couldn't see how your suggestion that impulse buys could still happen. The previous company I used work for imported lighting products from China, and before the shipping agent would book a slot on the boat they needed reams of export paperwork from the factory detailing the total items in the consignment, any hazardous products, weighbills etc. There was similar paperwork filled by the london office for the import side.... and then you hoped that customs didn't delay the consignment due to some technicality like a spelling mistake !

As Ian (I think) has stated, brining in reptiles from the EU is going to be a minefield from January 1st.
 

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I doubt that you will get the response you are seeking. Each one will provide you with links to other authorities and government sites, so you'll just be chasing your tail and coming to your own interpretation and conclusions. It may be prudent to sit on the phone for a few hours to cut out the chase, and then seek whatever confirmation given verbally in an e-mail.

One possible direction would be to contact any of the couriers such as Cold blooded movements to name one. I'm sure that as their business is in transporting reptiles around the EU and UK that they would have some idea on how this affects their business and what requirements are for their customers... last thing that they want to happen is become liable for having a customers prize six gene royal seized at the port of entry because they had the wrong or incomplete paperwork.

Taking out the CITES element, I still couldn't see how your suggestion that impulse buys could still happen. The previous company I used work for imported lighting products from China, and before the shipping agent would book a slot on the boat they needed reams of export paperwork from the factory detailing the total items in the consignment, any hazardous products, weighbills etc. There was similar paperwork filled by the london office for the import side.... and then you hoped that customs didn't delay the consignment due to some technicality like a spelling mistake !

As Ian (I think) has stated, brining in reptiles from the EU is going to be a minefield from January 1st.
Well as the period of notification for animals to be imported is to be 24 hours minimum and up to 30 days that would suggest the new system should be going live 02 December 2020. But then again maybe we shouldn't hold our breath on that either. As for making calls for information to the UK Cites office that is currently a non starter as they are refusing calls and diverting them to the APHA service desk in Carlisle who are unable answer or deal with and Cites queries.
 

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As for making calls for information to the UK Cites office that is currently a non starter as they are refusing calls and diverting them to the APHA service desk in Carlisle who are unable answer or deal with and Cites queries.
Told ya so ! :lol2:

I doubt that you will get the response you are seeking. Each one will provide you with links to other authorities and government sites, so you'll just be chasing your tail
 

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Originally Posted by harry python View Post
As for making calls for information to the UK Cites office that is currently a non starter as they are refusing calls and diverting them to the APHA service desk in Carlisle who are unable answer or deal with and Cites queries.
APHA are the Management Authority so are the people who can give you the answers.
 

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I should add that virtually all of the information on the government website, apart from passported cats and dogs, is under the heading of commercial. As for the current EU animal movements under Traces in the UK that stops on 06 December 2020 when importers have to use the UK Import of products, animals, food and feed system (IPAFFS). This is all ready accepting registrations and available to anybody in the UK with a government gateway account from where you can work through some of the hurdles for importing reptiles.
 

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Latest I have got back from APHA is that there will be at least 3 fees to pay when bringing back animals. 1. Import permit. Currently £67 which I assume is per consignment. 2. Health certificate/fit to travel from the country of permit. 3. Export permit. At the cost charged in the country you are exporting from.
 

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Latest I have got back from APHA is that there will be at least 3 fees to pay when bringing back animals. 1. Import permit. Currently £67 which I assume is per consignment. 2. Health certificate/fit to travel from the country of permit. 3. Export permit. At the cost charged in the country you are exporting from.
Why are you so obsessed with importing.
There is a thriving hobby here on the UK.
 

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Why are you so obsessed with importing.
There is a thriving hobby here on the UK.
When people throw around labels of this kind I always find it useful to check out the character of the poster from their earlier posts on their profile. Usually explains quite a lot about them.
 

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When people throw around labels of this kind I always find it useful to check out the character of the poster from their earlier posts on their profile. Usually explains quite a lot about them.
What's that got to do with the topic, and Ian hasn't labeled you in his post that you responded to!

I'm curious Harry, are you trying to imports something specific in the new year, or are you just trying to clarify the procedure and costs involved as a reference post should anyone else raise the question?
 

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What's that got to do with the topic, and Ian hasn't labeled you in his post that you responded to!


Pretty much what I thought about Ian's post.

I'm curious Harry, are you trying to imports something specific in the new year, or are you just trying to clarify the procedure and costs involved as a reference post should anyone else raise the question?

I haven't got any plans for the import of anything, as private individuals wanting to import small numbers directly into the UK will not find it viable anymore from 01 January 2021.
 
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I must say, for someone with no plans on importing any animals, you sure have went to a great deal of trouble and effort to find out what is required to import animals come the turn of the year?

I haven't got any plans for the import of anything, as private individuals wanting to import small numbers directly into the UK will not find it viable anymore from 01 January 2021.
 
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I must say, for someone with no plans on importing any animals, you sure have went to a great deal of trouble and effort to find out what is required to import animals come the turn of the year?
As they say a week is a long time in politics and one should never rule anything in or out despite the the impeding new obstacles.
 

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I haven't got any plans for the import of anything, as private individuals wanting to import small numbers directly into the UK will not find it viable anymore from 01 January 2021.
I must say, for someone with no plans on importing any animals, you sure have went to a great deal of trouble and effort to find out what is required to import animals come the turn of the year?
I thought that too.


I always find it useful to check out the character of the poster from their earlier posts on their profile. Usually explains quite a lot about them.
I followed your advice and checked your profile. Looking at your post history, other that a few post in the classified section, the bulk of your posts have been in connection with reptile shows, mainly on the continent, so presumed that the reasoning behind this thread was down to issues you are facing taking surplus stock and selling them in Holland or Germany, and or restrictions and cost incurred when possibly bringing back new stock (ignoring the covid issue that prevented this years shows)?

But that would not seem to be the case ?
 
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