[Chris Newman]

So BRAS paid the venue. The Venue Cancelled but would not refund, and a percentage of that that has been passed on to us.

Would the event insurance not cover this ?

I do understand that money has been lost here and that is has to come from somewhere but an email/phone call from the organisers would have gone a LONG way to handling this. I'm sorry, but leaving it to forum gossip/arguing/patronising comments has been a very poor way of handling this.

Colin tells us to get behind clubs and the FBH... but how about the clubs etc that have our money and goodwill getting behind us and telling us what is going on ?

It works both ways.

That is my understanding of the situation, however, as I said I did not become involved with this until too late in the day so I am not in possession of all the facts yet. Whilst BRAS is affiliated to the FBH this event was not an event sanctioned by us and I was not aware it was happening until very recently. I should point out that lawful events do not have to be sanction by the FBH, they simply need to be run by a bona fide club or society, which clearly BRAS is.

Having dealt with this “issue” now for the best part of two decades, that’s how long this nonsense has been going on, I have seen a lot of shenanigans from venues. Cancelation of events is extremely rare but it has happened in the passed and my experience is venues cling to funds like limpets on steroids! We will look at this in the cold light of day and see what can be done, I need to look at the facts and speak with our legal advisers before I can really say any more.

I fully appreciate people are very angry and feel very let down, and perhaps the cancelation was not handed in the most appropriate way, but can I just say this in their defence. If you have not experienced this fright train that hits you when this happens it’s very difficult I think for people to fully understand the emotions and turmoil – it turns your world upside-down, so lets cut these people a little slack, please.

I have been embroiled in this as I said for nearly two decades, death threats are still no easier to take today then they were at the start. My home has been attacked six times now, I have had my cars burnt out, come home to find your animals slaughtered and nailed to the fence, it’s not pleasant that I can assure you.

In the last few days its has become very clear we are entering a new phase over shows, not just shows but the very essence of what we do – keep animals in captivity. What I would say to you all today is now is a time for unity, more than ever before. I do understand the anger, but let’s focus that in the right direction – please?

 

[Gazfather]

Viva la revolution!

 

[Jay--Pee]

Actually it was a boots the chemist store and a local shop that was about as connected with selling fur and advocated animal testing as much as you do by sitting on a leather seat. So he burned these places to the ground in the night - sorry i didnt realise that made it ok??? He also planted firebombs in fishing tackle shops and some were discovered in fishing jackets during the day which could have exploded and killed anybody had they gone off properly. Would you risk having your house burned down over a reptile show?? seriously would you?

The Boots store (animal testing as I mentioned) and quote from the Wikipedia article that you linked (He was further accused of having set fire to department stores on the island that sold fur coats.)

The attacks targeted Boots stores, Halfords, stores selling leather goods, and stores run by cancer research charities.
arrested in July 1996 and charged with planting two incendiary devices in the Broadmead shopping centre in Bristol—one in a charity shop and the second in British Home Stores, set to explode at midnight, when he assumed they would be empty.[4] Police found a further four devices in his pockets.

Where does it say in that article that explosive devices were found in fishing jacket pockets. Sorry we're not all experts on animal rights activists but if you're going to argue a point don't try and make it seem that you've already given information that has just been ignored to make yourself look clever.

I am in no way condoning what he did or what other activists do, but loss of life is not the object here. The object is to get shows cancelled which the organisers have handed them on a plate.
No I wouldn't risk having my house burned down for the sake of a show, but I would equally not make a profit from the fact that I have cancelled a show due to a threat made against me. I would also probably look at the amount of death threats that are made in relation to how many attacks there are by people like Horne and weigh up the possibility of an attack being carried out. Same as looking at the amount of people that cross the street everyday compared to the amount of people that are run over. If you spend your life living in fear then you'd never leave your house.
If the organisers are that worried about the threats then are they going to disband BRAS and sell all their reps?

 

[Egg]

While I think this situation has been handled terribly anybody that would consider taking legal action against a reptile association shouldn't bother keeping reptiles.

We're all on the same 'side'... They just need to step their game up

We are not on the same side when the organisers come out of this with no loss while we all have to foot the bill, not really on the same side at all. Can you honestly say that this has been handled well? How many of us had to contact BRAS to find out what was going on? Not a peep from them. As someone else mentioned, there are people who will probably turn up tomorrow completely unaware as I would almost certainly have done had it not been for someone replying to a classified advert who happened to mention it was cancelled.

 

[Blake1990]

That is my understanding of the situation, however, as I said I did not become involved with this until too late in the day so I am not in possession of all the facts yet. Whilst BRAS is affiliated to the FBH this event was not an event sanctioned by us and I was not aware it was happening until very recently. I should point out that lawful events do not have to be sanction by the FBH, they simply need to be run by a bona fide club or society, which clearly BRAS is.

Having dealt with this “issue” now for the best part of two decades, that’s how long this nonsense has been going on, I have seen a lot of shenanigans from venues. Cancelation of events is extremely rare but it has happened in the passed and my experience is venues cling to funds like limpets on steroids! We will look at this in the cold light of day and see what can be done, I need to look at the facts and speak with our legal advisers before I can really say any more.

I fully appreciate people are very angry and feel very let down, and perhaps the cancelation was not handed in the most appropriate way, but can I just say this in their defence. If you have not experienced this fright train that hits you when this happens it’s very difficult I think for people to fully understand the emotions and turmoil – it turns your world upside-down, so lets cut these people a little slack, please.

I have been embroiled in this as I said for nearly two decades, death threats are still no easier to take today then they were at the start. My home has been attacked six times now, I have had my cars burnt out, come home to find your animals slaughtered and nailed to the fence, it’s not pleasant that I can assure you.

In the last few days its has become very clear we are entering a new phase over shows, not just shows but the very essence of what we do – keep animals in captivity. What I would say to you all today is now is a time for unity, more than ever before. I do understand the anger, but let’s focus that in the right direction – please?

This really does put things into perspective, I'm still angry about the way this has been handled but I genuinely feel for you and am glad to see you are still a member of the.community after everything that has happened : victory:

 

[Blake1990]

We are not on the same side when the organisers come out of this with no loss while we all have to foot the bill, not really on the same side at all. Can you honestly say that this has been handled well? How many of us had to contact BRAS to find out what was going on? Not a peep from them. As someone else mentioned, there are people who will probably turn up tomorrow completely unaware as I would almost certainly have done had it not been for someone replying to a classified advert who happened to mention it was cancelled.

No, it was handled terribly and showed some real incompetence. But I still have a great deal more respect towards BRAS than I do towards the APA.

In fact I actually think I was way too quick to judge and most of what I have said was due to my disappointment at the show being cancelled

I imagine they are feeling as let down as we are, but it dosnt excuse the way they have handled this situation

 

[carlo69]

handled badly

While i agree this may have been handled poorly by BRAS absolutely no argument there, We should all stick together and sort this out through more private channels all this will do is ad fuel to the antis fire.

 

[LFBP-NEIL]

The Boots store (animal testing as I mentioned) and quote from the Wikipedia article that you linked (He was further accused of having set fire to department stores on the island that sold fur coats.)

The attacks targeted Boots stores, Halfords, stores selling leather goods, and stores run by cancer research charities.
arrested in July 1996 and charged with planting two incendiary devices in the Broadmead shopping centre in Bristol—one in a charity shop and the second in British Home Stores, set to explode at midnight, when he assumed they would be empty.[4] Police found a further four devices in his pockets.

Where does it say in that article that explosive devices were found in fishing jacket pockets. Sorry we're not all experts on animal rights activists but if you're going to argue a point don't try and make it seem that you've already given information that has just been ignored to make yourself look clever.

I am in no way condoning what he did or what other activists do, but loss of life is not the object here. The object is to get shows cancelled which the organisers have handed them on a plate.
No I wouldn't risk having my house burned down for the sake of a show, but I would equally not make a profit from the fact that I have cancelled a show due to a threat made against me. I would also probably look at the amount of death threats that are made in relation to how many attacks there are by people like Horne and weigh up the possibility of an attack being carried out. Same as looking at the amount of people that cross the street everyday compared to the amount of people that are run over. If you spend your life living in fear then you'd never leave your house.
If the organisers are that worried about the threats then are they going to disband BRAS and sell all their reps?

i really have no intention of using a forum to make myself look clever so i think I will walk away from this now its turning into a points scoring competition, Its not mentioned about the fishing shops but I remember it happening quite clearly as not very much happens usually on our island. These people find your royal python keeping as offensive as a fur coat so dont be fooled that they are in some way honourable in who they choose to target.

 

[Gar1on]

This is truly a very difficult situation of which there are two sides and I would encourage everyone to look at both sides before jumping the gun and tearing BRAS to pieces. As has been said, this is a time for unification as opposed to arguments and disagreements - this is precisely what organisations like the APA are aiming for; if herpetologists and keepers (both professional or amateur) are so easily set against one another what true hope does our hobby have when we start facing the big guns? When we will have to fight against new laws and regulations that could stop us from keeping the animals we are so fascinated by?

Bomb threats alone should be taken seriously. These people are warped - killing the animals there in order to stop further shows that they (wrongly) believe are so damaging is quite possibly the kind of sacrifice these people are willing to make. As such, we must respect that when faced with such a situation it could not have been easy to make the final decision to cancel the show.

Further, it appears personal threats have been made against members of BRAS and the event organisers. This, if anything, should be taken more seriously particularly when it comes to the anti nut jobs who would most certainly give you and I a good shoeing for what we do as a hobby.

On the flip side, I do appreciate and agree this situation has been rather poorly handled by BRAS and those involved in the organisation of the event. The short notice perhaps could not have been avoided but certainly the lack of proper communication is disappointing and unfortunately erodes trust in an organisation that we should all be supporting.

Emails should have been sent to those who had tables booked and increasing the exposure of the cancellation should have been considered - I feel sorry for the poor :censor: who turns up tomorrow to find out it has been cancelled - there will inevitably be one or two... Probably more.

In regard to the money situation, it is correct that if the venue cancelled the should return the deposit in normal circumstances - as they will have violated the contract as opposed to the organisers. HOWEVER this is ultimately dependent on the contract itself, as every contract is unique and there could be something within this particular contract that means they do not have to give the organisers a refund. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, my law is a little dusty.) This links back to my previous point regarding communication - the organisers should be explaining this all more thoroughly so those affected have a better understanding of the situation.

Forgive me for the lengthy post... Just my two cents.

 

[dcap]

Did the show organizers contact everyone that booked a table to avoid them packing up their goodies and travelling? Hope so.

Personally, I'm 'only' disappointed (not out of pocket) - I was looking forward to the show. But I'm pleased I googled it just now to triple check it was Sat and not Sun (the other shows are all Sun!) ... and the link brought me to this thread. I only had an hour to drive ahead of me tomorrow, I'm guessing a fair few people are going to arrive and find out about this being cancelled tomorrow when they arrive.

Does seem very odd:
- BRAS say the venue cancelled
- according to thread posters above, the venue say that BRAS cancelled
- there was a thread in the Classified area yesterday saying if anyone has booked a table they can have one free, and others are saying that only 40% tables were booked ... really don't like the sound of the threats causing this to be cancelled and hope this is JUST a coincidence about the lack of bookings.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/bras-shows/844622-urgent-message-bras-attendees.html

If I was a breeder heading to the show to sell some animals, I think I'd be more annoyed at the time spent preparing and packing up (and possibly travelling and finding no show) than the lost £20 50% table fee. Seems like the organisers should step up and issue a full refund 'IF' it was them that cancelled.

 

[kenneally1]

This is truly a very difficult situation of which there are two sides and I would encourage everyone to look at both sides before jumping the gun and tearing BRAS to pieces. As has been said, this is a time for unification as opposed to arguments and disagreements - this is precisely what organisations like the APA are aiming for; if herpetologists and keepers (both professional or amateur) are so easily set against one another what true hope does our hobby have when we start facing the big guns? When we will have to fight against new laws and regulations that could stop us from keeping the animals we are so fascinated by?

Bomb threats alone should be taken seriously. These people are warped - killing the animals there in order to stop further shows that they (wrongly) believe are so damaging is quite possibly the kind of sacrifice these people are willing to make. As such, we must respect that when faced with such a situation it could not have been easy to make the final decision to cancel the show.

Further, it appears personal threats have been made against members of BRAS and the event organisers. This, if anything, should be taken more seriously particularly when it comes to the anti nut jobs who would most certainly give you and I a good shoeing for what we do as a hobby.

On the flip side, I do appreciate and agree this situation has been rather poorly handled by BRAS and those involved in the organisation of the event. The short notice perhaps could not have been avoided but certainly the lack of proper communication is disappointing and unfortunately erodes trust in an organisation that we should all be supporting.

Emails should have been sent to those who had tables booked and increasing the exposure of the cancellation should have been considered - I feel sorry for the poor :censor: who turns up tomorrow to find out it has been cancelled - there will inevitably be one or two... Probably more.

In regard to the money situation, it is correct that if the venue cancelled the should return the deposit in normal circumstances - as they will have violated the contract as opposed to the organisers. HOWEVER this is ultimately dependent on the contract itself, as every contract is unique and there could be something within this particular contract that means they do not have to give the organisers a refund. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, my law is a little dusty.) This links back to my previous point regarding communication - the organisers should be explaining this all more thoroughly so those affected have a better understanding of the situation.

Forgive me for the lengthy post... Just my two cents.

Good post J

 

[badger13]

Just to put this into perspective There are young men dieing in Afganistan fighting terrorism and yet it is happening in our country. Bomd threats are acts of terrorism. Unfortunatly the terrorists have won again

 

[Austin Allegro]

Aw well could be worse and worse things happen at sea. I bet none of you have worked as hard as i have for this show. I have been drilling holes in coconuts and chopping them in half for the past 6 weeks. got 4 boxes full of them what am i going to do with them now?
suppose i will have to wait for Donny and Norwich. :lol2:

 

[phelsumafarmer]

No notice.

Yes, that's all fine, but as an exhibitor I would've appreciated a phone call or email from the organisers regarding the cancellation - which never came.

If a fellow stand holder hadn't let me know I'd've lugged my stuff 2 hours there to find it shut.

Not professional; not even civil.
That alone warrants a FULL refund.

 

[Egg]

No excuses as far as the refund goes, if organisers cancel then exhibitors should get a full refund, who ever pulled the plug. Unless exhibitors read and agreed to a non refundable fee in the event of the organisers cancelling, their 'non refundable' claim means nothing. Trading Standards would I'm sure agree

 

[excession]

Yes, that's all fine, but as an exhibitor I would've appreciated a phone call or email from the organisers regarding the cancellation - which never came.

If a fellow stand holder hadn't let me know I'd've lugged my stuff 2 hours there to find it shut.

Not professional; not even civil.
That alone warrants a FULL refund.

Pretty terrible really that exhibitors have not been contacted as a priority.

I cannot help but wonder how many people will arrive with goods and reptiles only to find it has been cancelled - not to mention all the reptile enthusiasts who will turn up today.

 

[Snake_Charmer]

Wow, I was actually just checking the address before I traveled down...

Very glad I did now.

I agree, to simply post on a forum - whilst fortuitous for myself - is not the first and only thing I would have done.

I would have expected those who had booked stalls to have been contacted, personally asap. The organisers HAD to have taken their contact details, surely?

I feel sorry for anyone turning up today.

 

[ian kerr]

That is my understanding of the situation, however, as I said I did not become involved with this until too late in the day so I am not in possession of all the facts yet. Whilst BRAS is affiliated to the FBH this event was not an event sanctioned by us and I was not aware it was happening until very recently. I should point out that lawful events do not have to be sanction by the FBH, they simply need to be run by a bona fide club or society, which clearly BRAS is.

Having dealt with this “issue” now for the best part of two decades, that’s how long this nonsense has been going on, I have seen a lot of shenanigans from venues. Cancelation of events is extremely rare but it has happened in the passed and my experience is venues cling to funds like limpets on steroids! We will look at this in the cold light of day and see what can be done, I need to look at the facts and speak with our legal advisers before I can really say any more.

I fully appreciate people are very angry and feel very


















let down, and perhaps the cancelation was not handed in the most appropriate way, but can I just say this in their defence. If you have not experienced this fright train that hits you when this happens it’s very difficult I think for people to fully understand the emotions and turmoil – it turns your world upside-down, so lets cut these people a little slack, please.

I have been embroiled in this as I said for nearly two decades, death threats are still no easier to take today then they were at the start. My home has been attacked six times now, I have had my cars burnt out, come home to find your animals slaughtered and nailed to the fence, it’s not pleasant that I can assure you.



In the last few days its has become very clear we are entering a new phase over shows, not just shows but the very essence of what we do – keep animals in captivity. What I would say to you all today is now is a time for unity, more than ever before. I do understand the anger, but let’s focus that in the right direction – please?

Hi Chris
good of you to put some input in here
but can i ask you to contact someone if possible
from BRAS and ask them to post some info on here
regards
Ian kerr

 

[Grandpa]

The venue called us at 11.45am to tell us that they had cancelled our booking. The death threats that our members have had is unacceptable - unless you would be happy with that??
PS The booking form clearly states 'non-refundable' and we have been advised by the Federation of British Herpetologists (FBH) that despite this we should offer a 50% refund.

I would like to know who at the FBH advised a 50% refund?

Speaking has the FBH treasurer and contacting other members of the FBH, it didn't come from us.

So, I would expect table holders to receive an apology along with an explanation of events and a 100% refund.

I expect with the last minute cancellation by the venue and the death/bomb threats made to BRAS members things were a little confusing. Nonetheless, I for one would like BRAS to post that the FBH had no input in the decision to only refund 50% of table fee's.
BRAS do have my sympathy and support with regards to the irrational behaviour of the authority that closed the show.



Regards
Colin

 

[Mozart]

I hope you call the police about the death threats.

:censor: anti :censor: people :censor: just :censor: off!!! (wasn't saying nasty things just random words and censors.