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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all this is my first thread.
Before some people start to sharpen their pitch forks I will say the legal side of keeping slow worms.
They are protected in schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.
It is illegal to intestinally harm and or kill one.
It is illegal to sale, advertise a WC slow worm
Ok so that’s out the way hears my question. I have a female slow worm that I have had for over 2 years. She is really tame and when I open the lid to her home she comes out to be fed. Sometimes she will come out and stare at the lid. I open it and she goes on my hand and wants to come out for a look around ect.
What I was wondering if I got another female and a male and started to breed the as the young are CB could I sell some? Because I found they are lovely little things. Easy to keep, enjoy coming out, attractive in their own right and once used to humans they are very active if given the space and the right habitat and I would love to see more people keep them.
If it is illegal then I will get some more anyway as I would like a little group but then if they breed only keep some of the young and release the others (I know a good release site)
If anyone wants me to say how I keep mine then just ask and I’ll make a care sheet based on my experience.
cheers :2thumb:
 

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As far as I can remember, it's not illegal to sell slow worms as long as you can prove they are CB, it is illegal to sell WCs. People often prove they are CB through photos of mating, birth, new-borns; log books and certificates (although these aren't official in any way). You can always contact DEFRA regarding legalities.

Have a look at these 2 threads (one is about grass snakes but both species are under the same level of protection). There's a lot of waffle and disagreement but you get the answers in the end!

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/898300-keeping-captive-breeding-grass-snakes-2.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/913359-legal-sell-legless-lizards-slow.html
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
As far as I can remember, it's not illegal to sell slow worms as long as you can prove they are CB, it is illegal to sell WCs. People often prove they are CB through photos of mating, birth, new-borns; log books and certificates (although these aren't official in any way). You can always contact DEFRA regarding legalities.

Have a look at these 2 threads (one is about grass snakes but both species are under the same level of protection). There's a lot of waffle and disagreement but you get the answers in the end!

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/898300-keeping-captive-breeding-grass-snakes-2.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/913359-legal-sell-legless-lizards-slow.html
cheers will do:2thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
so if you can prove it e.g. docoments, photo's and video then its ok. have I got the right idea? though if I can get a male then I'll send a message to DEFRA. but its worth looking for a male to give it the task of breeding. (still want one though even just to keep as a pet)
 

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There's no official paperwork for these things so yes, as much evidence that you can collect to show they are CB is needed if you were to sell them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks :D
 

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Just to add that the usual legal interpretation of 'captive bred' animals which can be legally sold, is for them to be captive bred from captive bred parents, i.e. at least F2 and not F1. You can not take two animals from the wild, breed from them, and sell the offspring. The parents must be captive bred too.
 

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Just to add that the usual legal interpretation of 'captive bred' animals which can be legally sold, is for them to be captive bred from captive bred parents, i.e. at least F2 and not F1. You can not take two animals from the wild, breed from them, and sell the offspring. The parents must be captive bred too.
I've seen people say this before but where is this actually stated? I've never seen anything regarding generations in any of the acts?
 

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i have read numerous places that you must breed from cb adults to be able to sell the offspring, not just selling offspring from wild caught parents, there is no way you could make sure that they were not CF babies. check with defra on it but i believe thats the case too.
 

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If they are protected would it not also be illegal to remove them from a wild habitat unless they are in need of vet care? Very thin ice on that one I would think.

As to the captive bred issue. I once held some rare wild stock fish for a local environment agency while they fixed a spill in their natural environment. It took ages and while we had the fish in our quarantine facility they bred. The offspring were ours as we had technically bred them, but we could not sell them as they were only captive spawned and not from captive adults. Only the second generation would legally have been classed as captive bred as the entire life cycle had to be in evidence. Meaning from adult to breeding to egg all had to be captive.

We ended up letting the fry go with the adults back to the pond as they were not commercially viable and they lost most of hte captive stocks that were split into 6 groups.

Double check, triple check..and then ask for it in writing to cover yourself.
 

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I've seen people say this before but where is this actually stated? I've never seen anything regarding generations in any of the acts?
You're right, there is no definition in the WCA. This is how the Act has been interpreted in court in practice, i.e. via case law.

Mark.
 

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There's different levels of protection under UK law and although it's frowned upon it's not actually illegal to collect them from the wild
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If they are protected would it not also be illegal to remove them from a wild habitat unless they are in need of vet care? Very thin ice on that one I would think.

As to the captive bred issue. I once held some rare wild stock fish for a local environment agency while they fixed a spill in their natural environment. It took ages and while we had the fish in our quarantine facility they bred. The offspring were ours as we had technically bred them, but we could not sell them as they were only captive spawned and not from captive adults. Only the second generation would legally have been classed as captive bred as the entire life cycle had to be in evidence. Meaning from adult to breeding to egg all had to be captive.

We ended up letting the fry go with the adults back to the pond as they were not commercially viable and they lost most of hte captive stocks that were split into 6 groups.

Double check, triple check..and then ask for it in writing to cover yourself.
They are protected to a extent. They don’t have full protection like for example natterjake toads. They can be WC. But a WC can’t be sold. This is on DEFRA. But it doesn’t say if CB can be sold form what I can see. And Tim Wass is happy that I got it. I’ll probably ask him if I get a male. It’s just easier to be able to find out on the internet (though if someone says you can I would like to see the source and see if DEFRA agrees)
 

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I have a female slow worm that I have had for over 2 years. She is really tame and when I open the lid to her home she comes out to be fed. Sometimes she will come out and stare at the lid. I open it and she goes on my hand and wants to come out for a look around ect.
I love the sound of that. Would be great if you did find a way to breed them and sell them if they become that tame! I've handled a few in the garden but that sounds like a brilliant experience :2thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I love the sound of that. Would be great if you did find a way to breed them and sell them if they become that tame! I've handled a few in the garden but that sounds like a brilliant experience :2thumb:
it did take some time. For the first three months she would cope with me picking her up (she hasn't shed her tail) but when in her cage she would only come out at night or if i wasn't in the room. But she would dive for cover as soon as i got near. Then after about three months she was happy to come to the surface and wonder around in the day even if I was in the room but would slither of if i got near. After about another month she would relax under the UV light with me watching her and I could open the without her being scared. I could through the food in and watch her eat. And after another two or so months she would come out on to my hand and would be hand fed. And now she is completely relaxed and is chilling on my hand right now as I type this :lol2:
 
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