[Scaley]

i just put some locust and crickets in their viv and the male went mad! ran 2 the bottom of the viv 2 get a fat juicy cricket but missed and ended up eating a small piece of orchid bark! is this dangerous or will he digest it? hope sum1 can help me!!!! :2thumb:

 

[Torres13]

I dont think it digests, how smaller piece and how big is the chameleon? In small quantities it should be ok. Most people dont use substrate for yemens tho

 

[brittone05]

If it is a small piece adn is defintiely onlythe one, I would say keep an eye on him he should be okay.

I would be more concerned though about the possiblility of him eating it when you arne't looking! Crix can and will hide in the bark and most people don't recommend using a substrate for chameleons at all - I would seriously consider ditching it. I know it makes the viv look nice etc but it is not wortht he risks it carries with ingestion and impaction

Hope he is okay

 

[scotty123]

hate to say it but id be worried! like said how big was the bit of bark and how big is your cam?

in future i would either remove the substrate like mentioned or feed outside the viv where theres no chance of ingestion and impaction.

i feed mine outside the viv for this reason although i dont use bark just eco earth.

 

[Scaley]

the chams r about 6 inches without the tails and it is only fine orchid bark, i thought as seein all chams in shops or displays have bark or mud in there vivs, it would b ok? when i picked them up this was how they were kept and im sure they have been kept like this 4 a long time, i have only had them 4 about 6-7 weeks. he has no signs of problems and is still eating as normal. just keeping my fingers crossed! :2thumb:

 

[brittone05]

A lot of shops display thier animals to create the fullest visual impact so to entice customers to look andthink how good it all looks.

I would, personally, remove the bark and stick to either a bare or a paper covered viv bottom but each to thier own and if you feel comfortable with your set up then I can only say please keep a keen eye on your chams for any signs of impaction or stress and get them to the vets if you notice anything strange

 

[daddycool]

I keep yemens and use orchid bark, and tho i've seen them snag a bit of bark with ground hugging crix, it has never caused any probs..

you don't get kitchen roll in the wild....and if they are down looking for mising crix, they wouldn't be used to walking on it either, so i stick with orchid bark....persaonal preference, and the chams seem to enjoy it

 

[HABU]

you don't need any substrate in a chameleon cge. they don't live there. maybe some eco-earth or sand mix. chams don't worry about the ground. eating a chunck of bgark may kill it. just like a rock. shops want you to buy stuff.

 

[Othnelia]

I keep yemens and use orchid bark, and tho i've seen them snag a bit of bark with ground hugging crix, it has never caused any probs..

you don't get kitchen roll in the wild....and if they are down looking for mising crix, they wouldn't be used to walking on it either, so i stick with orchid bark....persaonal preference, and the chams seem to enjoy it

i'm gonna stick with this guy. you don't see chams only hunting on kitchen roll in th wild out of fear of eating substrate lol. but still keep a watchfull eye over it and make sure it is eating fine,

 

[HABU]

just imagine a chunk of fire wood in your belly

 

[weeminx]

I keep yemens and use orchid bark, and tho i've seen them snag a bit of bark with ground hugging crix, it has never caused any probs..

you don't get kitchen roll in the wild....and if they are down looking for mising crix, they wouldn't be used to walking on it either, so i stick with orchid bark....persaonal preference, and the chams seem to enjoy it

chams in the wild dont tend to go down the bottom of their trees to hunt!! they stay up high and hunt in the trees.your argument for bark is a bit poor i have to say.

i personally dont use any substrate with my yemens.theres always a chance they will grab some bark and what if they get a big bit?? what if it gets stuck?what if they have problems passing it the other end.its too risky in my opinion.

 

[MPF]

i use orchid bark and its been fine i have one of the live food tubs in there buried in to it and she comes down on a branch to eat from there without getting any chance eating the substrate , id say its ok depending on how u feed them

 

[brittone05]

totally agree wtih Weeminx

Like I say, each to their own but realistically....

It isn't the wild that the cham lives in - it is a captive environment

Wild Yemens are arboreal and very rarely go to ground level unless they are sick or females laying eggs

In all fairness, as a keeper you have a duty of care to ensure their environment poses minimal danger to them.

If you prefer the orchid bark then you could try cup feeding your cham using a high branch to hang the feeding cup from - high enough so the crix can't jump out, yet shallow enough for your cham to reach it's tongue into.

Also, if keeping the bark, i would maybe keep feeds to when you can supervise and remove any uneaten food before you turn the lights off etc

 

[essexchondro]

I don't keep my chams on any substrate at all - not even paper towels. I read somewhere once that a cham always chews and swallows after a strike even if they completely miss and don't catch anything. It follows, therefore, that if they do miss the prey item but get something else instead they are going to end up eating it. The only moveable things in my vivs that the chams can bring to their mouths are prey items.

The argument that they had substrate in the pet shop is a pretty weak one in my opinion. We all know that pet shops are not the place to go if you want to see animals being kept in their ideal set up. Pet shops have limited space and are compelled by the laws of capitalism to cram as much into that space as possible and also to use generic set-ups that require minimal modification between species.

I once saw a royal python being housed with a corn snake in just such a shop. Maybe not a disaster waiting to happen, but I think you'll agree its far from ideal.

Stuart

 

[Torres13]

The 'thats what they do in the wild' arguement falls short every time.

 

[essexchondro]

The "captive" versus "wild" argument comes up often with reptiles. But at the end of the day the point is that you want this animals as a captive pet. In the wild the life of the average chameleon is harsh and short. They are loaded with parasites because of the diet they'd eat, scarred and injured by battles with other chams and only have a life expectancy of a year or so. Very possibly they will injest foreign bodies such as bark etc, but this probably at least contributes to their demise if it isn't a direct cause of it.

As captive hobbyists we shouldn't try to replicate everything from the wild environment.

Stuart