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if egg cutting is impatience then what is breeding a female at the soonest possible opportunity if not impatience.

which is safer the impatient cutter or the impatience to get those eggs to cut or not.

rgds and i hope u have a good season greg, i really like some of those crazy orange amel hogs u have, like lava with a snout n' eyes :eek:)
ed

The real reason why anyone would cut eggs is impatience. There is no other need for it. Like I said, for 2 eggs that might not be able to hatch on their own, it is not worth cutting open a hundred, "just incase".[/QUOTE]
 
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Well holy crap, this may be the first time I have agreed with something Gregg M says!

Cutting eggs is unnecessary and promotes weakness in the hobby.

What happens when someone less experienced buys a weak animal that then produces further weak animals that cannot hatch on their own but the new owner can't help them? Tons of drowned snakes, that's what.
 

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i really disagree with this video, its not necessary and more to the point, theyre not even hatched yet and is being far too heavy handed with him, but hey thats prehistoric pets for you
 

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I don't agree with cutting eggs at all & I know when I have eggs incubating I certainly wont be cutting any, nature should be the judge and I'd much prefer the fittest and strongest out of the eggs to those who can't hatch on their own, after all wild snake eggs aren't provided with luxuries, if they can't hatch they die, which will be my thinking when the time comes, mother nature is cruel as well as kind.
 

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mother nature will have had nothing to do with u getting eggs which is why she should have no say whether the babies drown or not.

a broken or missing eggtooth is not a weakness, its badluck, the hatchling that breaks thru is not stronger, its merely luckier.

if u wish to leave ur hatchlings fate to luck that's ur call, but mother nature will not be in the room on that day.

rgds
ed

I don't agree with cutting eggs at all & I know when I have eggs incubating I certainly wont be cutting any, nature should be the judge and I'd much prefer the fittest and strongest out of the eggs to those who can't hatch on their own, after all wild snake eggs aren't provided with luxuries, if they can't hatch they die, which will be my thinking when the time comes, mother nature is cruel as well as kind.
 

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mother nature will have had nothing to do with u getting eggs which is why she should have no say whether the babies drown or not.

a broken or missing eggtooth is not a weakness, its badluck, the hatchling that breaks thru is not stronger, its merely luckier.

if u wish to leave ur hatchlings fate to luck that's ur call, but mother nature will not be in the room on that day.

rgds
ed
I agree Ed, all the stuff so many keepers impose on snakes, keeping them in relatively small boxes, often with no light cycle let alone UV. Starving them of exercise and adequate opportunity to thermoregulate. Taking away the ability to hunt down and tackle their own food by feeding them safe defrosts on tongs. Does feeding them dead specially bred rodents risk turning captive bred snakes into inactive tubes that lay there waiting to suck up a meal offered to them on a stick by their keeper, robbing them of their natural instinctive abilities over time? Turning them into poor captive substandard versions of their wild counterparts? I find it odd that keepers have bred so many generations of captive snakes, changing their colours, removing pigment, scales etc etc and then they get righteous about cutting open eggs because they see it as some kind of test for vitality. What a load of pseudo scientific bollocks! It could be that a contributing factor to the inability of some snakes to hatch from the eggs is something that could be attributed to humans conditioning them to captivity. I think the least we could do is help them out of their eggs. Or should vets and midwives not be assisting with any complication at birth either because it doesn't promote natural selection. People do come up with some bizarre shite.
 
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if egg cutting is impatience then what is breeding a female at the soonest possible opportunity if not impatience.

which is safer the impatient cutter or the impatience to get those eggs to cut or not
You bring up a good point Ed. My answer to that is both can be unsafe if done by inexperienced keepers. Lets face it, most here are inexperienced.


rgds and i hope u have a good season greg, i really like some of those crazy orange amel hogs u have, like lava with a snout n' eyes :eek:)
ed
Thank you my friend. I have 4 clutches incubating right now that I am super excited about. 3 of them are lava clutches. Females will be double clutching soon and I have roughly 6 gravid females ready to drop their first clutches. Honestly if I get nothing other than the 4 clutches I have incubating now, I will be fine with that. LOL. There will be plenty of snouted, eye balled lava erupting from eggs for me. Swear, I am not cutting them though. LOL
 

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You bring up a good point Ed. My answer to that is both can be unsafe if done by inexperienced keepers. Lets face it, most here are inexperienced.




Thank you my friend. I have 4 clutches incubating right now that I am super excited about. 3 of them are lava clutches. Females will be double clutching soon and I have roughly 6 gravid females ready to drop their first clutches. Honestly if I get nothing other than the 4 clutches I have incubating now, I will be fine with that. LOL. There will be plenty of snouted, eye balled lava erupting from eggs for me. Swear, I am not cutting them though. LOL
id leave all the hogs in the eggs if it was me :whip:
 

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i don't think it's been mentioned yet but there's a huge difference between cutting a little slit or small window to allow for a safe exit and some of the hack jobs were all familiar with on the tube'. god knows what the neonates think is going on in those, their basically being forced to hatch as little often remains of the shell other than a little bowl of fluid their sitting in.

the excuse of prevention of drowning in those hack jobs is obvious bs, and is as gregg has said nothing but extreme impatience, and a desire for instant gratification and the feelings of the neonate be damned.

have u noticed with morfs its now now i want it now, asap!, whereas with normals of other species its "u take ur time little buddy"

rgds
ed
 
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I was getting quite annoyed by this comment

well i personally think cutting eggs open is wrong because in the wild if they are not suppose to make it they wont hatch, but then again i have cut some leopard gecko eggs open because they was 4 weeks overdue and they smelt bad and were brown but the little one was alive but sadly died.

you should never cut open or help a hatchling hatch because its just going to deteriate later on in life.


Erm maybe if you had cut them before hand the one that was alive might have made it.:bash:
Just to add then, so your saying any animal that is not strong enough to survive hatching on their own shouldn't have human intervention to save them? With that in mind would you walk into a maternity unit and say that premature babies should not be helped or that actually we shouldn't have hospitals at all, maybe vets and hospitals are just a waste of time...well according to what you're saying...
 

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i think he/she meant the exact opposite, and was merely responding to the quoted txt.

in which case u picked on quote/replied the wrong person.

ed

Just to add then, so your saying any animal that is not strong enough to survive hatching on their own shouldn't have human intervention to save them? With that in mind would you walk into a maternity unit and say that premature babies should not be helped or that actually we shouldn't have hospitals at all, maybe vets and hospitals are just a waste of time...well according to what you're saying...
 

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I noted the date on the first post and the video link, sadly its gotten FAR worse since then...........They do not even wait until some of the eggs have pipped naturally now!!

This of course exposes the 'excuse' in that original video of 'they've gone some time now and not pipped like the others' as total BS.
Think I'm wrong then just check those guys latest video posted a few hours ago.

For me personally this has to be one of the most disturbing aspects of snake breeding and I Hate It!

Just to add my own 2 pennies worth......check this pic from a few days ago, those two mouldy rotten looking eggs would have been tossed in the bin if you believed the hype.

They in fact both pipped all by them selves, zero human assistance and the hatchling snakes are fine.....Odd one that ;)
 

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Talk About Next Level stupid,,,, Here's a perfect example....

Pause the video at 42-3 seconds! you will not believe your eyes!!
This guy is actually blade in hand cutting an egg whilst clearly looking in the opposite direction:bash: Mind boggling Stoopid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSsQr70u1A

This mentality seems to be quite the norm for some, check the first comment...quote ...
Answering a few questions in advance: Are the snakes dead? -No. Why do they cut the eggs? -To make sure the snakes do not drown in their eggs, making sure the batch survives DOH
 

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Talk About Next Level stupid,,,, Here's a perfect example....

Pause the video at 42-3 seconds! you will not believe your eyes!!
This guy is actually blade in hand cutting an egg whilst clearly looking in the opposite direction:bash: Mind boggling Stoopid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSsQr70u1A

This mentality seems to be quite the norm for some, check the first comment...quote ...
Answering a few questions in advance: Are the snakes dead? -No. Why do they cut the eggs? -To make sure the snakes do not drown in their eggs, making sure the batch survives DOH
To be fair, Jay has been doing this for decades, and it's pretty fair to assume he knows what he is doing. Not to mention that after you have done something (like cutting an egg open) several thousand times, the muscle memory would allow you to do it without looking.

He has stated his process a couple of times, and always uses his finger as a stop-guard between the blade and the snake, and in all of those videos I have never once seen him cut a snake, and the number of times he has cut himself (on camera) can be counted on one hand.
 

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To be fair, Jay has been doing this for decades, and it's pretty fair to assume he knows what he is doing. Not to mention that after you have done something (like cutting an egg open) several thousand times, the muscle memory would allow you to do it without looking.

He has stated his process a couple of times, and always uses his finger as a stop-guard between the blade and the snake, and in all of those videos I have never once seen him cut a snake, and the number of times he has cut himself (on camera) can be counted on one hand.
With respect its your choice to defend his actions, I for one will never be convinced by your argument.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree here Stiffy.
 

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With respect its your choice to defend his actions, I for one will never be convinced by your argument.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree here Stiffy.
Fair enough, I won't pretend that everything Jay does is perfect, nor should he be the book by which we base our standards. I for one think he has overproduced retics by such a huge margin, that he could single-handedly collapse an ecosystem if he wanted to. However, in that process, he has produced some of the most beautiful snakes I have ever seen, and his success is impossible to deny.
 

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Fair enough, I won't pretend that everything Jay does is perfect, nor should he be the book by which we base our standards. I for one think he has overproduced retics by such a huge margin, that he could single-handedly collapse an ecosystem if he wanted to. However, in that process, he has produced some of the most beautiful snakes I have ever seen, and his success is impossible to deny.
I respect your opinion just like everyone's and I take on-board your point about overproduction as it something I personally endeavour to avoid.

I think one glaring difference here is business factors ($$) seem to have long overridden things with these 'big name' U,S breeders and therefore the need for 'fame' via youtube etc, is rampant.

I also think if they were not making those videos of clutches being cut and ripped from the egg no one would have less respect for all the new morphs created.
 

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So it's July the 2nd and at least the topic has come up at the start of the month which leaves us to enjoy "vivs or racks", "royal breeding" and the "great british live feeding" debate for the rest of the month.

All I'd like to say is nature is a cruel bitch which is survival of the fittest at all times. Cut/don't cut it's your choice but some animals are never meant to hatch or be born and that includes us.

All this human intervention and compassion is down to us being the most intelligent animals on earth and feel the need to help the weak, dying or dead. We all watch Animal Planet, Discovery etc and see lion prides kill each other young and old, crocodiles eat young rhinos and endangered turtles getting gobbled up by birds and other predators. What do the scientists and naturalists do that watch and film this ....nothing, it's the animal kingdom.

Ethics, morals, greed, curiosity. Pick your reason to do it or not and change the subject.

And no I've never cut and lost a few in a clutch which were fertile and looked in the eggs after to find tiny under-developed animals inside. I'm not saying don't be upset etc but it's not always meant to be even with all the will in the world and tons of modern technology to aid us.
 
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