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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Another project we have been working on for a few years is Sunglow Eclipses, (we dubbed this line Red-eyed albino lemons as the eclipses were always a lovely pale lemon colour), which goes hand in hand with Super hypo Eclipse. In time, I want to get the tangerine back into the Super hypo Eclipses!

But for now:

Sunglow eclipse, Roger:


Super-hypo Eclipse (reduced to partial snake-eye), Sharky (named due to her attempting to eat anything that moves near her, including my hand :whistling2::


Sunglow eclipse (snake-eyes):


And Sunglow/hybino eclipse:


We have been aiming for good SHTCTB eclipses a few years now, but having not bred many of our leos the last couple of years for various reasons, have only produced the one up until now. She is a couple of years old now, so hopefully this year we will finally get a full eclipse SHTCTB!
 

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very intresting project you have there, with some cracking results too :2thumb:
 

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I like the sound of SHTCTB Eclipse. I searched the world for one of these and didnt find one. I wish you luck i hope to be on your list if you ever produce any.
This is the closest i have to what you are working towards. I can only imagine how great they would be with carrot tails and baldy.
Good luck to you.


Phil
 

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are they proven eclipses? as a few of them are lacking the white wash noses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the comments, I am certainly looking forward to this season!

are they proven eclipses? as a few of them are lacking the white wash noses.
They are definitely eclipse, they are my third generation. They originated from a sunglow with slight snake-eyes het raptor to a sunglow het raptor, and another sunglow with snake-eyes het raptor to a SHTCTB, to produce het tremper/eclipses. The super-hypo eclipse hatched with solid eyes which reduced.

The male I did not breed and is yet to be proven.
 

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Thanks for the comments, I am certainly looking forward to this season!



They are definitely eclipse, they are my third generation. They originated from a sunglow with slight snake-eyes het raptor to a sunglow het raptor, and another sunglow with snake-eyes het raptor to a SHTCTB, to produce het tremper/eclipses. The super-hypo eclipse hatched with solid eyes which reduced.

The male I did not breed and is yet to be proven.
awesome, makes me wonder about my lot, they've all got eclipse eyes, but no way or proving it genetic or not as they're all non-breeders.
 

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questions.....

Lovely Leo's but must admit I was thinking the same as Kirsten, Rodger is def Eclipse (and gorgeous!) but the others look to have tinted eye trait, rather than Eclipse, as, as said no white nose/face indicator is in place, after all this is the main visual indicator to point out the Eclipse gene from the non-visual. Kirsten asked if they were proven, but your reply didn't make sense to me, sorry, have you matched these individuals up to known proven Eclipses and got all 100% visual Eclipses out?? eg white washed nose/face/feet and the eye from full-snake eye. I have a girl with snake eyes and she 100% het Eclipse (Raptor x Mack Tremper het Eclipse parentage) but def not visual in my opinion as she doesn't have the white wash nose/face and feet, are you sure these girls arn't the same and the eye is a mutation as opposed to the Eclipse gene?
no offense is meant here at all Jess, I am just very curious and trying to work it all out, as if what you're saying is correst, it goes against everything I've learnt so far about what makes an Eclipse and Eclipse visually speaking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
No these three haven't been bred yet. The one I bred a couple of years before in this thread, shows all the traits of eclipse:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/218041-red-eyed-sunglow-leo.html

Unfortunately I lost her, and before she successfully bred. Her parents were one of the original 'snake-eye' sunglows, bred to a sunglow het raptor.

The Super hypo 'eclipse' was from the other 'snake-eye' Sunglow crossed back to her son (SH het 'eclipse') from a completely unrelated SHTCTB.

So 'SnakeEye' Sunglow het RAPTOR X SHTCTB gave SH het 'eclipse' male.
I bred the SH het 'eclipse' male back to his mum the following year, and this gave the Super-hypo 'eclipse' in this thread, who hatched with solid eyes. Here is the Super hypo 'eclipse' as a baby:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/294874-leo-hatchling-first-4.html

I just notcied the one from the US in this thread does not have the whitewashed nose and feet either. I also just saw I mentioned some white toes on her but to be honest I have no idea if that is anything to do with the eyes or not.

I then had the chance to acquire Roger, who fits in perfectly.

As far as the white washed nose and feet, no they don't have it, although two of them hatched wilth full 'eclipse' eyes. I am also not sure about the 'tinted eye trait'. I know of it in macks and blizzards. Are you saying this is a random 'mutation'? It's just it doesn't seem random in this line. Also I have never seen a false eclipse like in the hybino/sunglow girl, they have always been smudges as in the sunglow. I guess the next years breeding may answer a few questions!

I hope all that made sense lol! I am confusing myself writing this as it all seems a very long time ago, and a lot has happened since then!

Lovely Leo's but must admit I was thinking the same as Kirsten, Rodger is def Eclipse (and gorgeous!) but the others look to have tinted eye trait, rather than Eclipse, as, as said no white nose/face indicator is in place, after all this is the main visual indicator to point out the Eclipse gene from the non-visual. Kirsten asked if they were proven, but your reply didn't make sense to me, sorry, have you matched these individuals up to known proven Eclipses and got all 100% visual Eclipses out?? eg white washed nose/face/feet and the eye from full-snake eye. I have a girl with snake eyes and she 100% het Eclipse (Raptor x Mack Tremper het Eclipse parentage) but def not visual in my opinion as she doesn't have the white wash nose/face and feet, are you sure these girls arn't the same and the eye is a mutation as opposed to the Eclipse gene?
no offense is meant here at all Jess, I am just very curious and trying to work it all out, as if what you're saying is correst, it goes against everything I've learnt so far about what makes an Eclipse and Eclipse visually speaking.
 

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questions cont.....

No these three haven't been bred yet. The one I bred a couple of years before in this thread, shows all the traits of eclipse:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/218041-red-eyed-sunglow-leo.html

Unfortunately I lost her, and before she successfully bred. Her parents were one of the original 'snake-eye' sunglows, bred to a sunglow het raptor.

The Super hypo 'eclipse' was from the other 'snake-eye' Sunglow crossed back to her son (SH het 'eclipse') from a completely unrelated SHTCTB.

So 'SnakeEye' Sunglow het RAPTOR X SHTCTB gave SH het 'eclipse' male.
I bred the SH het 'eclipse' male back to his mum the following year, and this gave the Super-hypo 'eclipse' in this thread, who hatched with solid eyes. Here is the Super hypo 'eclipse' as a baby:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/294874-leo-hatchling-first-4.html

I just notcied the one from the US in this thread does not have the whitewashed nose and feet either. I also just saw I mentioned some white toes on her but to be honest I have no idea if that is anything to do with the eyes or not.

I then had the chance to acquire Roger, who fits in perfectly.

As far as the white washed nose and feet, no they don't have it, although two of them hatched wilth full 'eclipse' eyes. I am also not sure about the 'tinted eye trait'. I know of it in macks and blizzards. Are you saying this is a random 'mutation'? It's just it doesn't seem random in this line. Also I have never seen a false eclipse like in the hybino/sunglow girl, they have always been smudges as in the sunglow. I guess the next years breeding may answer a few questions!

I hope all that made sense lol! I am confusing myself writing this as it all seems a very long time ago, and a lot has happened since then!

Actually no 'random trait' isn't what I was thinking, actually I was thinking maybe you have an iris smudge eye trait going on, in my experience, white wash nose is 100% connected to Eclipse, without this in place I have always been told and agree that the individual is not a visual Eclipse, it is their calling card as it were, when people have said otherwise they have usually proved out through breeding that said individual is infact not visual, or have claimed so only for others to find it doesn't add up genetically, as said my snake eye non visual Eclipse, also hatched with full red eyes and as she grew these receeded to snake eyes (since she is also Mack this has been put down to the tinted eye trait) since you have a line all showing the same trait and the individuals are not Mack or Blizzard it is unlikely this is the cause, though not impossible I suppose.
Anyways ...this is reminding me a lot of Craigs recent thread involving his wonderful SunGlows, we coined it the 'Solar' project after the male, I will find the thread and add it, he too was working on a sunglow line and got a number of what appeared to be Eclipse eyed offspring, as far as he is aware there is no Eclipse at all in this line, so was rather baffled, he researched and found he was not alone and similar eye trait mutations had popped up else where, with the same base indicators, I'm thinking you have something like this going on.
The only way to know for sure would be to get a 100% visual Eclipse male (one with a big white wash nose/face) and pair him to the ladies and see what pops out, if any of the offspring turn out 'normal' then you know they are not visual Eclipses and that instead the pairing is activateing something else very interesting. I am by no means any sort of Expert on this, just airing my thoughts and very interested to see others input, Eclipses are my Leo Love and I am totally smitten with them, truly one of the things I love most about them, is their wonderful white washed noses, it doesn't seem right to be Eclipse and not have it and tbh if this is the case it makes identifying Eclipse based morphs impossible, we rely on it as a visual to help us to decide if Eclipse is truly in play, if this is the case then your offspring have totally broken all the rules and if this is so, I want to know all about it and how it happened hee!


http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-pictures/745255-tremper-sunglow-update-thread.html

Craig's thread with the unusual eyes Sunglows
 

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this is a very intresting thread, i will keep my eye out to see what happens with them :2thumb:
when you say sunglow eclipse, i take it you mean a raptorglow (a orange super hypo tremper eclipse) ? as the two girls dont look albino from the pics making them super hypo eclipses not sunglows? as lunar im very intrested with all this and intrested to see what is going on with them geneticly
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
this is a very intresting thread, i will keep my eye out to see what happens with them :2thumb:
when you say sunglow eclipse, i take it you mean a raptorglow (a orange super hypo tremper eclipse) ? as the two girls dont look albino from the pics making them super hypo eclipses not sunglows? as lunar im very intrested with all this and intrested to see what is going on with them geneticly
I have to say I'm now a little baffled and am looking forward to seeing what happens with the coming year! I may change my plans and put the Super hypo eclipse to my raptor male to double check the eyes. I have always just assumed eclipse, as they appeared where I expected, and when I originally put up pictures the lack of whitewash was never pointed out, and I tend to go with what gazz says as he knows his stuff.

I have never considered them to be 'raptorglows'. This is simply because they don't show the traits of a raptor. They are not tremper patternless, and they are not born with the lovely raptor orange. The leos we have bred from to get to this point have all been banded/striped and are born pale albino colours (or normal superhypo colours).
To be honest I am not even too sure what defines a raptorglow, in the last year or so I've not really kept up with latest morphs like I used to.

The eyes do look dark in the pictures, but the last two eclipse girls are definitely albino, I know I've got that bit right..! When I have time I will try and get better pictures. I've even managed to make the males look quite dark and his are bright red.

Let me know if you ever part with any of your interesting little eclipse leos, as that would certainly make an interesting addition to the project!
 

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I like the sound of SHTCTB Eclipse. I searched the world for one of these and didnt find one. I wish you luck i hope to be on your list if you ever produce any.
This is the closest i have to what you are working towards. I can only imagine how great they would be with carrot tails and baldy.
Good luck to you.
image

Phil
Although very subtle this girl does have a White tip nose and White smudge between her eyes.

If you wanted to test breed the eyes couldn't you use raptors there's lots about for around £40

Good luck it would be nice to see something new in the uk.

Phil
 

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Hmm....

Interesting Jess.

To be honest I'm not 'convinced' that the various eye traits have yet been fully ironed out........
There seems to be all sorts of odd things happening, from 'true eclipse' through to 'false eclipse' in macks/blizzards to all sorts of weird and wonderful bits in between.

Interesting times.
 

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Here`s a superb source of information regarding many eclipse and `eclipse type` leos - hope it doesn`t get deleted as if read, and re-read, it can be wondeful tool to use:

"Eye Pigment" - Geckos Unlimited
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Although very subtle this girl does have a White tip nose and White smudge between her eyes.

If you wanted to test breed the eyes couldn't you use raptors there's lots about for around £40

Good luck it would be nice to see something new in the uk.

Phil
Hiya, yep I mentioned above I may test one of them with my raptor male. And thanks, I just need to hope for a good season!

Hmm....

Interesting Jess.

To be honest I'm not 'convinced' that the various eye traits have yet been fully ironed out........
There seems to be all sorts of odd things happening, from 'true eclipse' through to 'false eclipse' in macks/blizzards to all sorts of weird and wonderful bits in between.

Interesting times.
Here`s a superb source of information regarding many eclipse and `eclipse type` leos - hope it doesn`t get deleted as if read, and re-read, it can be wondeful tool to use:

"Eye Pigment" - Geckos Unlimited
Thats a great link, it has made some things a lot clearer! A really interesting read. I notice it did mention the white areas were not a necessity, but I also didn't realise the 'Abyssinians' were non-pigmented eclipses. Turns out eye pigmentation is even more fascinating than I first thought.

Perhaps I should have just stuck with my original description of red-eyed sunglow, and followed it with black snake-eyed super-hypo, although long-winded that would be a more accurate description until proven otherwise.
 

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Here`s a superb source of information regarding many eclipse and `eclipse type` leos - hope it doesn`t get deleted as if read, and re-read, it can be wondeful tool to use:

"Eye Pigment" - Geckos Unlimited
That's a great read. We need a sticky like that in our genetics forum.

Phil
 
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