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Just to add to the confusion, whilst there doesn't seem to be a declaration of health specifically for reptiles, there does seem to be a requirement to have a form filled in for the transportation of live animals by sea, even for part of the full journey form here Now it states "To be completed and attached to the veterinary certificate where transport to the Great Britain, Channel Islands or Isle of Man includes, even for part of the journey, transportation by ship. "

So if you need to complete the above addendum for anything traveling by sea, and it must be attached to the veterinary certificate, then that infers that anyone bringing back a snake via the ferry, the form is a requirement, which then needs a health certificate for it to be attached too.....Boy this is confusing.... just glad I'm not actually trying to bring something back from the EU!!
 

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Just to add to the confusion, whilst there doesn't seem to be a declaration of health specifically for reptiles, there does seem to be a requirement to have a form filled in for the transportation of live animals by sea, even for part of the full journey form here Now it states "To be completed and attached to the veterinary certificate where transport to the Great Britain, Channel Islands or Isle of Man includes, even for part of the journey, transportation by ship. "

So if you need to complete the above addendum for anything traveling by sea, and it must be attached to the veterinary certificate, then that infers that anyone bringing back a snake via the ferry, the form is a requirement, which then needs a health certificate for it to be attached too.....Boy this is confusing.... just glad I'm not actually trying to bring something back from the EU!!
You and me both.
 

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The situation is so simple.
I honestly cannot understand why some people are trying to make more out of this than there really is.
I believe the precis I provided above does explain what's needed.
It's very very straight forward: the UK is no longer an EU member so can no longer enjoy free movement of goods within the EU, which includes CITES specimens.
Therefore, if you want to move a specimen between the UK and the EU you have to follow the same laws that had to be followed if you moved a specimen from any other non EU country in the world.
APHA have been handling permits since 1997.
The only change is that now, we have to apply the COTES Regs to EVERY country including all EU members.
The elephant in the room is the mention of "animal health certificates".
Given that herps have been imported to the UK from around the world for decades, I cannot see why now you need something you didn't need before.
They may apply to dogs, domesticated pets, farm animals etc. But as far as I am aware, not to reptiles.

The best advice I can think of is to speak to companies who regularly import from around the world. They have first hand experience in whats needed, how to get the permits, and who to contact.
 

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I am in the same boat .. I put a deposit down for a snake from Germany and he got experience with CITES etc. as he ships to US too - I am not ready to receive it yet so we haven't checked how to do that but here's hoping he knows how ... When I imported snakes pre-Brexit some couriers essentially shipped via air freight (coming from US) so it was essentially same day shipping - quite expensive though as you can imagine.

As far as I am aware though - you don't have to prove they are on CITES because all reptiles now are


Or rather they are covered under CITES now - which makes no sense but you know - BREXIT ...

The import license is mainly required for traders - that was the same back in the day when I imported from US.

What usually happens / happened is that you use a third party that deals with paperwork. For instance, I used a licensed reptile shipping company that dealt with all the paperwork.

But to give you an idea - I imported about six ball pythons once in one shipment - that was around 2007 however, and back then I paid about £1100 all in for the handling and shipping from the US. On top of that was import and VAT and of course they charged me both on the shipping cost as well.

As I was breeding high end morphs back then it was still worth it as I was able to get my money back with a couple of sold snakes. For instance, when I imported a Super Lesser I spend like 4k but sold each baby for 2.5k so it was worth it.

But again, that was 10 years ago and I merely compare Germany to UK with US to UK now given Brexit - I might still be full of manure :)

The frustrating bit is that as an individual it is near impossible to find out exactly what is happening. I spend already hours on the phone trying to find out. As I say - some guys tell me they fall under CITES now due to brexit, and when you send them to their own website


That obviously talks about endangered animals, which CITES is, but they just got 0 clue themselves.

Another link to read yourself dizzy:

Well I received a reply.... not really much help.....(as expected) - I've removed the officers name for privacy reasons.



So really just confirmation that anyone moving Royals between UK and EU or other countries will need both Import and Export permits, and referrals to websites that we've all visited and left in a confused state.

No confirmation on health certificates, and when you ring the number provided the 6 options really relate to farming issues (such as payments) rather than the ability to talk to a receptionist and get routed through to the right department. The only things it does clarify is the current processing time of applications, and that anything not on the CITES list can be moved permit free.

I've sent a reply to the mail I received asking for clarification or better redirection given the fact that it doesn't really clarify the situation regarding health certification.... But again, it could be some time before I get a reply.... I will of course post up any further information received.
And people wonder why I really did not want to go through all this as a noob when I found it stressful enough just contacting local reptile shops let alone arranging import/export.
 

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The situation is so simple.
I honestly cannot understand why some people are trying to make more out of this than there really is.
I believe the precis I provided above does explain what's needed.
It's very very straight forward: the UK is no longer an EU member so can no longer enjoy free movement of goods within the EU, which includes CITES specimens.
Therefore, if you want to move a specimen between the UK and the EU you have to follow the same laws that had to be followed if you moved a specimen from any other non EU country in the world.
APHA have been handling permits since 1997.
The only change is that now, we have to apply the COTES Regs to EVERY country including all EU members.
The elephant in the room is the mention of "animal health certificates".
Given that herps have been imported to the UK from around the world for decades, I cannot see why now you need something you didn't need before.
They may apply to dogs, domesticated pets, farm animals etc. But as far as I am aware, not to reptiles.

The best advice I can think of is to speak to companies who regularly import from around the world. They have first hand experience in whats needed, how to get the permits, and who to contact.
Ian,

Granted you you have a better understanding of this than most, and I respect that.... But you're missing the point of my post.... Yes reptiles have been imported from outside the EU for decades, but typically by those in trade, not individuals who are more used to the pre Brexit system where bringing a royal back from Germany was no more involved than picking one up from the next county.

Part of my "exercise" was to see if sending a direct request to the organisations you so kindly provided would confirm and assist anyone who has little or know experience of the now current procedures...I was hoping for a simple response, however the result is clear... they just cut and paste the links to the government and APHA websites rather than just say you need XY and Z and attached the pdfs that need to be completed and returned.

It also shows that nothing is clear, and could be interpreted in many ways. The reference to the shipping form may only be applicable to a truck load of sheep and have no reverence to someone bringing back a Royal as a pet.... but it's just not clear, and makes no reference to "exemptions". Similarly for the health certificated, whilst there is no section for reptiles, with most of the others related to animals that could have a potentially detrimental effect to existing species in the UK (for example rabies, or a bird flu etc), you might have thought that with fatal diseases such as IBD etc such certificates may be a requirement. But then I guess that it's really meant to protect UK native species or farm animals, rather then a private breeder adding to his collection ....

I agree with you, that the best approach would probably be to contact a company / agent / courier they is already conversed in the requirements, as approaching the agencies in question doesn't give you a clear and concise answer.
 

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And that @Malc was my point. It is exceptionally difficult to find the information easily. As much as I have been told here in the thread I was wrong, it is clear that even the public departments responsible for setting the rules don’t always understand them.

And even companies claiming they know can be wrong. Or even worse, airports get it wrong.

As I mentioned in the beginning, I used to import BPs from the US and despite having all the required correct papers,the responsible guy at the airport once clearly didn’t understand the rules himself and the animal was seized and subsequently destroyed.

After proving they were wrong they only told me I am free to see legal advise. That was actually why I stopped importing from the US.

As you say, pre Brexit importing a snake was a matter of picking it up. I did a few Hamm trips by car from the UK.

Just not worth it unless you are trader and can make serious money with the import. As an end user I don’t see the point anymore.
 

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Got a quote for moving CITES species from Germany this week using a third party, it is going to be approximately £400 total, that includes all paperwork, all courier fees etc etc. It was about the same cost for 1 animal or 100 animals.
 

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Got a quote for moving CITES species from Germany this week using a third party, it is going to be approximately £400 total, that includes all paperwork, all courier fees etc etc. It was about the same cost for 1 animal or 100 animals.
That doesnt sound too bad to me. Yeah, if you only want a single green anole, its not worth it. But when most things coming over will be high end royals etc, I don't imagine it will phase many breeders. Especially if they bring 10 or 20 over, its barely anything to add on to the cost.
 

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Yes I agree, if you do 10 animals or more at a time the cost per animal isn't that bad.

For non cites species it was about £200/250 I believe
 

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Following my phone call to APHA which went now where as the offices were all closed, I sent an email, to which I received the following reply.

Thank you for your query.

The movement requirements for live terrestrial insects, reptiles, amphibians and crustaceans from non EU countries can be seen in Import Information Note (IIN) BLLV/9, which can be viewed at the link below.

http://apha.defra.gov.uk/documents/bip/iin/bllv-9.pdf

Please note that although the Import Information note states that it is for use by veterinary staff, we do also send these to importers as they set out all of the conditions you must comply with in order to proceed with your import.

Please read all the information carefully and ensure that your import can fully satisfy all the appropriate conditions and requirements.

For guidance on Importing animals, animal products and high-risk food and feed not of animal origin from 1 January 2021 please refer to the following .GOV page:

Import or move live animals, germinal products, animal by-products and high risk food and feed not of animal origin

Please read this page carefully and click on links where required for further information relating to your commodity.


Kind Regards
The document clarifies that until March 2022 "Animals within the scope of this IIN do not have animal health requirements, and therefore such imports into Great Britain do not need to be accompanied by veterinary health certification. However, consignments must be accompanied by: • a commercial invoice and packing list containing detailed list of species, number of animals, premises of origin and premises of destination, contact details of the importer, and intended use of the animal (pet food, ornamental, pet sales, etc). • an exporter declaration that the animals are ‘fit to travel’. "

Presumably the documentation would be covered in the form of the import / export permit, if not then its a fairly comprehensive list of items and process of meeting these requirements is reflected in the £400 cost stated above.

At least this exercise has (hopefully) confirmed Ian's statement, and (also hopefully) clarified the current requirements and includes the links to get the correct paperwork and email addresses to make application if someone is looking at importing Royals or other reptiles form the EU. In the BLLV/9 document there is also a link to the BLLV/8 document that covers importation of reptiles as pets, which is very similar to importing into a "business" but outlines the responsibility of the owner when transporting it back into the UK. I guess the definition of what levels dictate a reptile is a pet or it's in such numbers to suggest a business use (can someone class 40, 100, 500 roylas as pets ?) is open to interpretation.

Anyway, it has been an interesting exercise, and hopefully (there's that word again), helped anyone considering purchasing a reptile from an EU breeder.
 

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As you say, pre Brexit importing a snake was a matter of picking it up. I did a few Hamm trips by car from the UK.

Just not worth it unless you are trader and can make serious money with the import. As an end user I don’t see the point anymore.
On the one hand its a shame as it means in the case of royals, that only high end multi-gene snakes will be brought in as the importer needs to reclaim a share of the £400 based on the quantity being brought in. If someone is bringing in a £7000 six / seven gene morph, then they are going to factor in the £400 to the value of that snake and stick an extra £50 to the selling price of any offspring it ends up producing, so the price of Royals will go up.

On the other hand it means that the market for UK breeders has just opened up.... with some breeders churning out decent multi gene animals there would be no need to look abroad. However knowing how hard it is now for someone to hop on a ferry and bring back a few reptiles form a show, the price of Royals will now go up.... But it also means that UK breeders have to be competitive as they can't easily sell to EU customers without the hassle and costs, so maybe the cost of Royals will be in the customers favour rather than the vendors.
 

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What a nightmare. We moved to The Republic of Ireland from the UK with my pet snakes and some spiders 6 years ago - they just came on the ferry with us. When we eventually move back the chances are most of them will still be alive (8 - 10 years).
2 x Royals so that is import and export permits and probably a designated port? Not Rosslare and Pembroke Dock I expect. I bet it'll be Dublin to Holyhead. One is 16 the other is 11 and we've had them from hatchlings.
2 x Honduran Milk snakes and 1 x Corn Snake so can I just drive them through without declaring them as they are non-CITES? The Corn snake is 12, the Hondurans are 8 and 2................ I keep looking at them all and hoping they might die a happy old age before we return!
 
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