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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1) who uses the fridge method? do you need a special fridge, what size and how do you maintain the temp below 8 degrees?


2) im emailing a couple of breeders re hatchlings and 1 just told me that he doesnt hibernate hatchlings for a couple of years......what does everyone feel about this and what do you do?


many thanks
 

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Unless you are looking at breeding the animals I don't believe that hibernation is necessary.

Hibernation is an adaptation to unfavorable conditions and is not a physiological requirement.

Ed

1) who uses the fridge method? do you need a special fridge, what size and how do you maintain the temp below 8 degrees?


2) im emailing a couple of breeders re hatchlings and 1 just told me that he doesnt hibernate hatchlings for a couple of years......what does everyone feel about this and what do you do?


many thanks
 

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Maybe it isnt a phsiological requirement but it is what they do in the wild and surely it is a responsibility as good keepers to simulate the wild as much as possible?
 

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I disagree with Ed. I hibernate all of my tortoises unless they have health problems. I strongly believe in doing things like they would happen in the wild, and they have been doing for millions of years!

It may be an adaptation to unfavorable conditions, however, it's what happens in the wild and going against it will have horrible implications.

Their growth will be accelerated and there are also detremental effects on the liver.

I use a larder/beer fridge for my tortoises, it is ideal as it is at food standards, big enough for my 5, but not so big that it has tons of empty space which causes things to fluctuate a little!

Heres a good few articles on fridge hibernation:
Tortoise Trust Web - Refrigerator Hibernation for Tortoises and Turtles
Untitled Document
 

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I've heard that somewhere...

If you believe forcing an animal into suboptimal conditions is beneficial... cool... I don't.

They are also predated on by other animals in the wild... you know... survival of the fittest and all that...

What they experience in the wild is nowhere near what the have avaible in captivity.

Needless to say... it is not a requirement... another one of those ambiguous questions.

Ed

Maybe it isnt a phsiological requirement but it is what they do in the wild and surely it is a responsibility as good keepers to simulate the wild as much as possible?
 

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1) who uses the fridge method? do you need a special fridge, what size and how do you maintain the temp below 8 degrees?

I use the fridge method, in fact I have never done it any other way. I have up until now used my normal kitchen fridge, the torts are in plastic tubs so it isn't a problem. I keep my fridge temp at 5 degrees, I have a normal fridge thermometer, get the temp where I want it by using the temp dial and then it generally stays there. Every now and then it might go up or down a degree or two but the box's my torts are in are all insulated so they don't know anything about it. Some people put bottles of water in the fridge to keep the temp stable.... If it isn't full of food and drink that is!


2) im emailing a couple of breeders re hatchlings and 1 just told me that he doesnt hibernate hatchlings for a couple of years......what does everyone feel about this and what do you do?

I know the breeder that I had three of my Hermann's off doesn hibernate hatchlings as she would worry too much. I had my three off her before they were a year old and they hibernate the first winter I have them with no problems.
 

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Some people prefer to overwinter hatchlings for the first year or two, But after that I think people should hibernate them. Its natural - and as tortoise dude said "they have been doing it for millions of years" : victory:
I completely disagree with -EJ
 

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See... an opinion is one thing but when you say it WILL have horrible implications... what's that??????

What HORRIBLE IMPLICATIONS????

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that accelerated growth is detrimental to the health of any animal. There is also no evidence to suggest any kind of liver damage due to not hibernating.

A little common sense... not all individuals of a given species hibernate.

I disagree with Ed. I hibernate all of my tortoises unless they have health problems. I strongly believe in doing things like they would happen in the wild, and they have been doing for millions of years!

It may be an adaptation to unfavorable conditions, however, it's what happens in the wild and going against it will have horrible implications.

Their growth will be accelerated and there are also detremental effects on the liver.

I use a larder/beer fridge for my tortoises, it is ideal as it is at food standards, big enough for my 5, but not so big that it has tons of empty space which causes things to fluctuate a little!

Heres a good few articles on fridge hibernation:
Tortoise Trust Web - Refrigerator Hibernation for Tortoises and Turtles
Untitled Document
 

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Isnt accelerated growth what causes pyramiding? And (I may be wrong on this) Metabolic Bone disease?
 

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There is no way accelerated growth causes pyramiding.

Pyramiding is sometimes associated with accelerated growth but there is another factor or factors which are responsible for pyramiding.

MBD is yet another totally unrelated affliction.

Ed

Isnt accelerated growth what causes pyramiding? And (I may be wrong on this) Metabolic Bone disease?
 

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I will be hibernating mine also... my Leopards, Redfoots, Aldabras and Sulcatas in addition to others.

The point is that it is not a necessity for the animal.

Ed

I Will Be Hibernating Mine This Year
I Think They Should B Hibernated
And I Am Looking For A Fridge To Use For This
 

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there are many people that disagree with you about this. i wasnt sure about the MBD being related but you said yourself pyramiding is linked to accelerated growth. And pyramiding IS detrimental to a torts health.
 

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Wrong on both points...

Pyramiding is associated not linked. Linked implies that you can't have one without the other.

You can have accelerated growth without pyramiding. If they were inked you cound not have accelerated growth without pyramiding.

There are as many people who agree with me as not. What you see are the vocal folks... they are far from a majority of the keepers.

Most normal keepers will not be bothered by this debate so they don't post.

There is no way pyramiding, itself, is detrimental to a tortoises health. You can have a prefectly healthy pyramided tortoise.

Ed

there are many people that disagree with you about this. i wasnt sure about the MBD being related but you said yourself pyramiding is linked to accelerated growth. And pyramiding IS detrimental to a torts health.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
gosh didnt mean to start a huge debate:blush:


thanks ofr the advice...i can just see my boys in our home fridge....maybe a salad drawer each lol....its good to know that i dont need a specific fridge type....would those small beer fridges be ok, the ones that hold about 8 cans??
 

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i am pretty much on the fence on this one.

i DO shorten and cool my leos photoperiod and temps in the winter by a few hours each day, even though alot of experts say that the photoperiod and temps for an african species should be constant. so maybe that puts me a little closer to one side of the fence than the other!

The reason i got out of keeping meds was because i wasnt at all happy with putting my tort in a fridge and basically having a part time pet. i felt really bad about it and worried no end! hence the decisiion to get africans.

Hibernation is a risky ( but often beneficial for breeding) business, hence people making the decssion NOT to hibernate for medical reasons such as slightly low weights or light parasite burden. its a matter of looking at the pros and cons and making a decission accordingly.

I have heard lots of stories about people loosing tortoises in hibernation and brain damage from poor temperature control. but i have never heard anybody say there tort died because it WASNT hibernated.
 
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