[Thrasops]

Hi!

I'll be receiving 3.3 of these in August, just wanted to start up a discussion on them, and hopefully those who have kept them will share their experiences.

I've kept a good few lacertids before - my aim with these is to hopefully start a breeding colony with the view to eventually having future generations in an outdoor enclosure.

I will be keeping the new arrivals in pairs in 36" x 15" x 18" wooden vivs (I would have preferred glass, but had to use wooden as they stack more easily...)

I'll be using a bank of fluorescent lights in each viv, I'm starting off with a repti-glo 10.0 and a Hagen Life-Glo II to provide UV and "white" light respectively (I'm a firm believer that good light intensity = happy lacertids) and depending on how we go may add another Life-glo and a repti-glo 2.0 to each viv.

Heating provided by a 60W bulb to one side of the viv. This may be upgraded to 100W if I feel temps aren't up to scratch, but I find wooden vivs of this size hold heat a little too well and I want to provide at least some thermal gradient. There will be no heating at night - the vivs will be allowed to fall to room temp.

I'll be using a deep substrate of soil/peat/sand so the lizards can burrow, and I'm going to try my hand at using ivies, herbs and lavender in the setup - I've not tried herbs or lavender indoors before but thought I'd give it a try as I associate Sand Lizards with garrigue and maquis habitats in France and wanted to recreate this (I know this subspecies is more easterly in distribution - but meh).

Should I be successful in breeding them then, as said, future generations will hopefully be housed in a 10ft diameter reptiliary I have plans to buld outside, but that'll be a project for the next few years.

Any comments? Tips? Advice? Discuss away!

Regards,
Francis

 

[Blaptica]

They will almost certainly be alot happier outdoors. Why not start with a smaller outdoor vivarium first rather than investing in all that expensive equipment (UV lights etc) ?

 

[colinm]

They will do better outdoors.Indoors you will need to hibernate them artificially and that is not always easy.
I would suggest coarse sand as a substrate.

 

[robpilley]

exigua

I always keep lacertas outside, i have exigua outside and they breed every year (more or less). I wouldnt dream of keeping them indoors, far too many hassles and complications indoors.
A large sandy bottomed enclosure with rocks and plants for cover and good deep substrate to burrow into for hibernation will be fine. Exigua are funny things as they hibernate for a very long time as well- mine usually go down from the end of August until march.

Rob

 

[Thrasops]

They will almost certainly be alot happier outdoors. Why not start with a smaller outdoor vivarium first rather than investing in all that expensive equipment (UV lights etc) ?

They will do better outdoors.Indoors you will need to hibernate them artificially and that is not always easy.
I would suggest coarse sand as a substrate.

I always keep lacertas outside, i have exigua outside and they breed every year (more or less). I wouldnt dream of keeping them indoors, far too many hassles and complications indoors.
A large sandy bottomed enclosure with rocks and plants for cover and good deep substrate to burrow into for hibernation will be fine. Exigua are funny things as they hibernate for a very long time as well- mine usually go down from the end of August until march.

Rob

To all the above, thankyou for taking the time to reply. :2thumb:

As stated, the intention is to have these outside in the future - I've had plans to build a reptiliary for some time, unfortunately it is not something I am able to progress with for the next year or two. Since these are hardly ever available I snapped them up when I saw them as they hopefully will be the seeds of many future generations of Russian Sand Lizards!

In Europe I have kept many other lacertids (including French Sand Lizards and Green Lizards), and find that, although they obviously do better outdoors with exposure to natural sunlight, almost all will also do well and breed under optimum conditions indoors - optimum meaning "give them as much light exposure as possible".

Having said that, most of my experiences have been with southern European and north African lacertids (various Podarcis, Psammodromus, Acanthodactylus, Eremias and so on), which probably don't require such a lengthy hibernation period at such low temps (these particular L.a. exigua are coming from Xin Jiang, China, where temps can pass 35C in the summer and plummet to below 0C in the winter).

In anticipation of the Sand Lizards, I bought a small fridge some time ago on the advice of another European keeper to use for brumation (not just of Sand Lizards; I will also be using this to brumate my Dione's Rat Snakes and various other European snakes in my collection...) it's a first for me but I believe it may be a step in the right direction for species that require cold periods (tortoise keepers use the same technique apparently).

I plugged in my new fluorescents for the first time today to see what they would look like and have decided to go with another pair in each viv, either a Repti-Glo 2.0 or 5.0 and another Life Glo II for that all-important light intensity and UV... The plan is also to put them outside as often as possible in "flexariums" so they can bask "au natural".

Once the garden is sorted out (it needs a lot of work...) there's a perfect circle of earth surrounded by concrete about 10ft in diameter that will be used to house these lizards... it's going to take a bit of thought though as my area is infested by both cats and foxes... as it's the first time I'll be creating such an enclosure in the UK, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice, particularly in constucting hibernacula and keeping the inhabitants safe from cats and foxes!

Regards,
Francis

 

[Lozmick geckos]

A blast from the past post but did you ever build the outdoor enclosure?

 

[Creed]

In anticipation of the Sand Lizards, I bought a small fridge some time ago on the advice of another European keeper to use for brumation (not just of Sand Lizards; I will also be using this to brumate my Dione's Rat Snakes and various other European snakes in my collection...) it's a first for me but I believe it may be a step in the right direction for species that require cold periods (tortoise keepers use the same technique apparently).

'Fridge brumation' works great, I've been using it for a couple of years for all my animals that need a cold spell. I've put my Elaphe schrenckii away today and my tortoise group will join them in a couple of weeks. Do keep an eye on humidity though, it's to only thing I keep an eye on during the next months. A glass of water inside the fridge or a specific substrate helps a great deal.

Once the garden is sorted out (it needs a lot of work...) there's a perfect circle of earth surrounded by concrete about 10ft in diameter that will be used to house these lizards... it's going to take a bit of thought though as my area is infested by both cats and foxes... as it's the first time I'll be creating such an enclosure in the UK, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice, particularly in constucting hibernacula and keeping the inhabitants safe from cats and foxes!

Regards,
Francis

I'd highly suggest looking at some none English sources. Especially German keepers share a great deal of useful information on forums and a couple German books dedicated to 'Freilandhaltung'. The Dutch herpetology organisation 'Lacerta' also has several publish articles and the following website is also a good read: http://www.terrariumtuin.nl/

Google translate should produce something understandable and I can help translate the bits that might turn into gibberish.

 

[Thrasops]

*grits teeth*

A blast from the past indeed... I lost close to a grand on this "import" hat turned out to be a complete scam.