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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi again

i would like to start off by wishing you all a happy new year :2thumb:

ok i thought i would start a new thread for my simple questions.

I dont know if im daft or looking in the wrong places for my info but i have some basic questions again.

I have been out (with the dog) this weekend looking for some leaves form my little dart frog, and i am having some issues find suitable leaves, i have read oak and magnolia leaves are used (oak seems to get the peoples vote) but i cant seem to find an oak tree

i am not very good with tree identification and had no experience in trees or plants so this maybe a long post :)

i was thinking are they any leaves i can use? for example i have a lot of sycamore leaves around were i am (who ever planted trees in mk must love these)

i have found a few tree like bushes that have leaves that look like magnolia but im not 100% sure so will add a pic below for some help but all these leaves still seem to be green and im guessing i would really want them a more brown colour and on the floor instead of on the tree/bush, to get them brown could i put them in the oven for a bit or will this take stuff out of the leaves i will need?

my other question is it best to have the leaves dry (stu mentioned when i hijacked morgans thread) this time of year its impossible!! or will a min in the microwave suffice?

i am the type of person who over thinks everything and even if i had an oak tree i would be very suspicious thats its not an oak tree because its in my garden and thats far to easy..... so i apologise if im over thinking this simple process of collecting leaves and i thank anyone out there who helps me










thanks again all (sorry if i have bored anyone)

dane
 

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Nope, you are not boring anyone! Sycamore leaves are fine- they break down quicker than oak or magnolia, but there is (almost) always a ready supply of replacements!

The leaves in your pics look like laurel to me- this is toxic, I'm afraid. In general, evergreens are best avoided, unless you know which are which. Fruit and nut leaves are generally fine; oak, hazel, apple, sweet chesnut, even hawthorn. Google any of these for leaf/tree shapes- that will help. The main advantage of using dry leaves is that they take longer to rot, so that's up to you; misting will inevitably moisten them again anyway, although probably not to the same extent. As mentioned elsewhere, some people like to 'nuke' them anyway, to kill off any beasties; I never do, but that's my choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nope, you are not boring anyone! Sycamore leaves are fine- they break down quicker than oak or magnolia, but there is (almost) always a ready supply of replacements!

The leaves in your pics look like laurel to me- this is toxic, I'm afraid. In general, evergreens are best avoided, unless you know which are which. Fruit and nut leaves are generally fine; oak, hazel, apple, sweet chesnut, even hawthorn. Google any of these for leaf/tree shapes- that will help. The main advantage of using dry leaves is that they take longer to rot, so that's up to you; misting will inevitably moisten them again anyway, although probably not to the same extent. As mentioned elsewhere, some people like to 'nuke' them anyway, to kill off any beasties; I never do, but that's my choice.
thanks ron thats great news i am going right now to collect some sycamore leaves as i have tons of them next to my house

as long as i can get something to throw in to keep my little fella happy im all good

thanks again mate
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
the little dude came straight out of his house and scaled the lovely new leaves and he even found a leaf with some small woods on nom nom anom

 

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the little dude came straight out of his house and scaled the lovely new leaves and he even found a leaf with some small woods on nom nom anom

image
Excellent!

Incidentally laurel used to be used in kill jars by entomologists :gasp:- so not just toxic, very toxic! Not a problem for you, 'cos you won't use them, but worth putting up so others know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Excellent!

Incidentally laurel used to be used in kill jars by entomologists :gasp:- so not just toxic, very toxic! Not a problem for you, 'cos you won't use them, but worth putting up so others know.
yeah i totally agree and its hard to find info on what leaves can be used for leaf litter

glad i didnt use it as it did look kind of simular with the oics on google
 

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Excellent!

Incidentally laurel used to be used in kill jars by entomologists :gasp:- so not just toxic, very toxic! Not a problem for you, 'cos you won't use them, but worth putting up so others know.
contains some form of cyanide i seem to recall,Ron can you confirm this.
Dane to be sure on oak check out acorns and oakapples.finally the reason for bone dry is one severely cuts done the likely hood of nemerteans,thats what i wanted you to search for,they predate on springtails which might be hugely important as a dart keeper whom wants this feeder to do well in his substrate
Stu
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
contains some form of cyanide i seem to recall,Ron can you confirm this.
Dane to be sure on oak check out acorns and oakapples.finally the reason for bone dry is one severely cuts done the likely hood of nemerteans,thats what i wanted you to search for,they predate on springtails which might be hugely important as a dart keeper whom wants this feeder to do well in his substrate
Stu

arrrr sorry stu i totally missed the hint in the other post... from now on any word that i cant read, pronounce or even understand you say im going to google.

just on bone dryness will a blast in the microvwave do the trick?
 

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contains some form of cyanide i seem to recall,Ron can you confirm this.
Dane to be sure on oak check out acorns and oakapples.finally the reason for bone dry is one severely cuts done the likely hood of nemerteans,thats what i wanted you to search for,they predate on springtails which might be hugely important as a dart keeper whom wants this feeder to do well in his substrate
Stu
Cyanogenic glycosides and amygdalin (whatever that is :lol2:), apparently.
I honestly didn't know much about nemerteans- quite fascinating! I doubt they'd be much of a threat except in huge concentrations, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Cyanogenic glycosides and amygdalin (whatever that is :lol2:), apparently.
I honestly didn't know much about nemerteans- quite fascinating! I doubt they'd be much of a threat except in huge concentrations, though.
its some kind of worm a rbbon worm apparently urrrrrr
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
well the ones i put in i checked and got rid of things like spiders and webs and stuff as i wasnt sure what could be thrown in or not and the only insect/bug/worm i let slip in on the leaves were woodlice (found loads of small ones who didnt last very long) so i think i have got away with it this once

however i have learnt a good lesson today (cheers stu) :notworthy:

and also i will be getting dry leaves from now on :2thumb:

also have you sen how big one has reached? 54 meters thats a staggering 177ft omg
 

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well the ones i put in i checked and got rid of things like spiders and webs and stuff as i wasnt sure what could be thrown in or not and the only insect/bug/worm i let slip in on the leaves were woodlice (found loads of small ones who didnt last very long) so i think i have got away with it this once

however i have learnt a good lesson today (cheers stu) :notworthy:

and also i will be getting dry leaves from now on :2thumb:

also have you sen how big one has reached? 54 meters thats a staggering 177ft omg
Think you'd spot that one...:whistling2:
 

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Dane I like the natural aproach to viv making i don't really sterilise the hell out of everything,i'm very similar to Ron in this respect,we both grew up i think keeping our phibs with no problems.I can't speak for Ron,but i'm pretty sure like me he thinks that there are many benefits to not sterilising the hell out of stuff. But there are some negatives that could potentially be a real big issue to dart keepers,that might not be anywhere near as important to other phib keepers.These become real issues with oophaga where alot of folks rear the kids in tank with their parents. The 2 bigggies that i have come across are nemerteans as above and snails.Typically nems. don't often reach plague proportions,but occasionally it does happen,i have been told of vivs being abandoned and stripped and restarted because of this.Normally one gets a few and they are just a damn pain in the butt,not more.The issue of course is springtails are a primary food source for a tiny oophaga froglet,and damn useful for all darts.
We have a woodlouce here called Onacillus acillus,check him out,you'll find him on rotting oak in number,this little guy might have some affect on nemertean numbers as they are said to predate the nemertean eggs.But once you have these guys(nems) in a viv,looks like you have them forever.
Snails will eat dart eggs,the buggers munch the embryo and leave the jelly,can be a major problem more so if you are not pulling eggs,there is a tiny chance of passing on liverfluke too,but TINY,they are an intermediate host for this nasty.
Dane this next bit is real important,I'm not scaremongering you,i'm showing you stuff i have come across so you can make an informed descission.
The likely hood is that every thing will be fine,you can microwave stuff if you require that is your choice,i do this with my cultures and all the subs for young frogs,as the springtails and mono cultures productivity are so important to me.Honestly it is my humble opinion that greater dangers come from pesticides and the activities of man to your viv and its inhabitants,but its worth having some knowledge of the other stuff,that nature can throw at us.
Ron mate happy new year,cheers for the cyanide confirmation
seeya
Stu
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Dane I like the natural aproach to viv making i don't really sterilise the hell out of everything,i'm very similar to Ron in this respect,we both grew up i think keeping our phibs with no problems.I can't speak for Ron,but i'm pretty sure like me he thinks that there are many benefits to not sterilising the hell out of stuff. But there are some negatives that could potentially be a real big issue to dart keepers,that might not be anywhere near as important to other phib keepers.These become real issues with oophaga where alot of folks rear the kids in tank with their parents. The 2 bigggies that i have come across are nemerteans as above and snails.Typically nems. don't often reach plague proportions,but occasionally it does happen,i have been told of vivs being abandoned and stripped and restarted because of this.Normally one gets a few and they are just a damn pain in the butt,not more.The issue of course is springtails are a primary food source for a tiny oophaga froglet,and damn useful for all darts.
We have a woodlouce here called Onacillus acillus,check him out,you'll find him on rotting oak in number,this little guy might have some affect on nemertean numbers as they are said to predate the nemertean eggs.But once you have these guys(nems) in a viv,looks like you have them forever.
Snails will eat dart eggs,the buggers munch the embryo and leave the jelly,can be a major problem more so if you are not pulling eggs,there is a tiny chance of passing on liverfluke too,but TINY,they are an intermediate host for this nasty.
Dane this next bit is real important,I'm not scaremongering you,i'm showing you stuff i have come across so you can make an informed descission.
The likely hood is that every thing will be fine,you can microwave stuff if you require that is your choice,i do this with my cultures and all the subs for young frogs,as the springtails and mono cultures productivity are so important to me.Honestly it is my humble opinion that greater dangers come from pesticides and the activities of man to your viv and its inhabitants,but its worth having some knowledge of the other stuff,that nature can throw at us.
Ron mate happy new year,cheers for the cyanide confirmation
seeya
Stu
Stu, thanks for all your advise and higlighting the issues as you say there are many factors and last thing i want to do is end up ripping everythign out and having to start again or even worse loose my frog because of some pollution or something

there are so many things to think about

on a good note though i have got shed loads of jars and tub all over the place now my elivery came last wednesday (ordered 3 of everything) so now ill be producing my own instaed of been lazy and buying in :blush:

again thanks to both of you for all your help
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
just to expand on the technical words i didnt understand

Oophaga is a genus of poison-dart frogs containing nine species. Many of these species were formerly in the Dendrobates genus.[1] The frogs are distributed in Central and South America, from Nicaragua through the Colombian El Choco to northern Ecuador (at elevations below 1,200 metres (3,900 ft)).
Oophaga, Greek for "egg eater" (oon, phagos),[2][3] is descriptive of the tadpoles' diet.[4][5] The larvae feed exclusively on unfertilized eggs supplied as food by the mother
 

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Stu, thanks for all your advise and higlighting the issues as you say there are many factors and last thing i want to do is end up ripping everythign out and having to start again or even worse loose my frog because of some pollution or something

there are so many things to think about

on a good note though i have got shed loads of jars and tub all over the place now my elivery came last wednesday (ordered 3 of everything) so now ill be producing my own instaed of been lazy and buying in :blush:

again thanks to both of you for all your help
your welcome and don't worry about this stuff too much,good luck with the cultures mate
Stu
 
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