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Am a complete newbie to leopard gecko genetics, kept a small colony of normals some years ago, before switching to corn snakes.

I have however been given a young-adult collection that will be coming into maturity in the spring. I have no idea what I should be mixing to get colours and there are so many different morphs and terms that I'm a bit lost and confused (it's not hard to do to me).

Anyway, I have these geckos labelled as described to me...

Male: SHTCT (Described to me as an "Urban" gecko, whatever that means).

Females:
1. Hypo het tremper albino, het blizzard
2. Lavender
3. Blazing Banana
4. Albino

Now in the case of Female 1. does this simply make it het blazing blizzard?
In the case of female 2. is lavender even a genetic desireable morph or is this just what the guy was calling it and is it meant to be some sort of normal or is lavender actually a morph? In the case of number 3 i've never even heard of a "blazing banana" and again, is this an accurate name and is it genetic?

Now say I breed each of these females to the rather stunning SHTCT - will I actually get anything interesting? Or are they all going to be normals with various hets? And furthermore... can one male even service 4 ladies? Or should I be investing in a second male and splitting them into 2 groups - in which case, what would be the best morph to get that would bring out the best traits in these ladies.

If anyone has any advice links or perhaps a nice little program like the Cornprog that calculates offspring... I would appreciate it

Thanks for any advice, I think I prefer corn snake genetics overall.
 

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SHTCT might be (S)uper (H)ypo (T)angerine (C)arrot (T)ail.
You are a lucky duck getting a colony like that.
The male might be able to 'see to' all four girls.
The genetics I have no clue about.
 

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I'm only learning about genetics myself, but I think with that lot you have a massive amount of recessive genes, which means, as you say, lots of hets!

There isn't a programme or anything as far as I know (I have asked on different forums!) Because there are so many outcomes! :?

One thing I do know, If you were to breed the female het albino het blizzard, to a male bliz het al/al het bliz, you'd end up with some blazings! (Well, I think anyway, although maybe the hypo would change it. :? )

Oh.... I GIVE UP! Hehe! Sorry, rather unhelpful. I will PM you someone who may help though! :D

Emma xXx
 

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genetics explained

OK FIRST OF ALL I M SORRY FOR DOING THIS BUT HEY YOU ASKED.
i got this information off another forum so ive pasted it all here for you enjoy the read.
Author Topic: Genetics Explained........Hopefully! (Read 682 times)
James D
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Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« on: July 16, 2006, 07:15:27 pm »

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As a fair few people seemed to be getting confused on the genetics threads that come up from time to time, I thought it would be a good idea to make this thread. I will attempt to explain how different genes work allowing you to predict what offspring you should get from any pairing. I will go into as much detail as possible while trying to keep it simple at the same time! I hope this does help people as I have a feeling it isn’t going to be a 10 minute job! If anyone does have any questions after these posts (I have a strong feeling there will be more than one of you! Lol) then please feel free to ask. You can either ask on the thread, or if you feel like it’s a stupid question (which there is no such thing!) and you would rather PM me, then I will post the question and answer without mentioning any names! Anyway, here goes……..
I’ll start by explaining a few terms for you:

Recessive Gene – Animal (or plant!) must have 2 copies of the gene for it to alter the animals appearance. One example of this is albinism.
Dominant Gene – Animal will display the characteristics of this gene whether they have one copy or 2. The wild type or ‘normal’ gene is dominant.
Co-dominant Gene – Animals appearance will be altered with 1 or 2 copies of the gene. An animal with 1 copy will also appear different to an animal with 2 copies of the gene. One example of this is a Mack Snow.
Homozygous – Has 2 copies of the same gene.
Heterozygous – Has 2 different copies of a gene (alleles)
Allele – A mutated form of a gene which appears at the same point on a chromosome.
Gamete – A sex cell (sperm or egg) with one copy of a gene rather than 2.
Genotype – Which genes an animal carries eg. ‘het for albino’.
Phenotype – What an animal looks like eg. ‘normal’ or ‘albino’.

To predict the ratios of what a pair should produce, you can use something called a Punnet square. The gametes one parent produces are put along the top, and the gametes the other parent produces are put along the left hand side. The gaps in the grid can then be filled in. In this example I’ll show why you should get an even split of male and females in non TDSD organisms:

The female has the genotype XX
The male has the genotype XY

X X

X XX XX

Y XY XY

This gives 2/4 (50%) females (XX) and 2/4 (50%) males (XY)

« Last Edit: July 16, 2006, 07:20:40 pm by James D » Logged

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James D
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2006, 07:16:34 pm »

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Recessive Genes
The most widely used example of a recessive gene is albinism. For an animal to be an albino, it must be homozygous and have 2 recessive ‘albino’ genes. In this example, I will refer to the ‘albino gene’ as a small letter ‘a’. The ‘normal’ pigment gene will be referred to as a capital ‘A’. This is because the ‘normal’ gene is dominant and the ‘albino’ gene is recessive. In a simple mating between an albino and a homozygous normal, we get the following results:

The albino has the genotype aa
The normal has the genotype AA

a a

A Aa Aa

A Aa Aa

100% of the offspring will be heterozygous or ‘het’ for albino. This means, they will appear normal, but will carry one copy of the recessive albino gene. If this animal is bred to another albino, the following results will occur:

The het albino has the genotype Aa
The albino has the genotype aa

A a

a Aa aa

a Aa aa

This will result in 50% of the offspring being het albino (Aa) and 50% being homozygous albino (aa).

If the het albino animal was bred with another het then the following results would occur:

Both animals are het albino and so, both have the genotype Aa

A a

A AA Aa

a Aa aa

This would result in 25% homozygous normal offspring (AA), 50% het albino (Aa) and 25% homozygous albino (aa). There is no way of knowing if the normal appearing offspring are het albino or not. As 2/3 of the normal appearing offspring should be het albino, they are normally referred to as ‘66% het albino’.


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James D
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2006, 07:17:40 pm »

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Dominant Genes

All ‘wild type’ or ‘normal’ animals have at least one copy of the normal pigment gene. This gene will always be visible in the phenotype of the animal unless it carries a copy of a co-dominant gene which I’ll come onto later. There is no point in showing you this with a punnet square as you can simply look at the above examples to see how dominant genes are passed on to other generations.


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James D
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2006, 07:18:29 pm »

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Co-dominant Genes

Co-dominant genes are somewhere in between recessive and dominant genes. If 1 copy of the gene is present, it will effect the phenotype of the animal, but if 2 copies are present, the phenotype is altered again. One of the few examples I can think of in Leopard Geckos is the recently discovered ‘Mack Snow’. Animals which carry one copy of the gene, which I will refer to as ‘M’, hatch out with black and white/grey stripes and as they develop, show a great reduction in yellow pigment. Animals which carry 2 copies of the gene hatch out and are a dirty white/grey colour all over, as they get older, they develop spots but have absolutely no white (or any other colour in fact!) on them – these are called ‘super snows’. If a super snow was bred to a normal animal, the following results would occur:

The super snow has the genotype MM
The normal has the genotype AA

M M

A AM AM

A AM AM

This results in 100% heterozygous snows (AM).

If a heterozygous snow was to mate with a normal animal, the following results would occur:

The heterozygous snow has the genotype AM
The normal animal has the genotype AA

A M

A AA AM

A AA AM

This would result in 50% normal offspring (AA) and 50% heterozygous snows (AM).

If a heterozygous snow was bred to a super snow, the following results would occur:

The super snow has the genotype MM
The heterozygous snow has the genotype AM

M M

A AM AM

M MM MM

This would result in 50% heterozygous snows (AM) and 50% super snows (MM).

A super snow bred to another super snow would produce 100% super snows.



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James D
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2006, 07:19:40 pm »

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Multiple Recessive Genes

Some morphs involve multiple genes such as banana blizzards (Patternless and blizzard genes involved) and blazing blizzards (albino and blizzard genes involved). This complicates things as we have to make the punnet squares large to allow for the different combination of genes produced during gamete production. To produce an blazing blizzard, you could breed an albino to a blizzard. The albino would have the genotype aaBB as the albino gene is present, but the blizzard gene is not. The blizzard would have the genotype AAbb as the albino gene is absent, but the blizzard gene is present. The albino will create gametes all with the genotype aB, and the blizzard will create gametes all with the genotype Ab.

When bred together, the following will result:

aB aB

Ab AaBb AaBb

Ab AaBb AaBb

This results in 100% het albino and blizzard, but phenotypically normal offspring.

If 2 heterozygous animals were bred together the following would occur:

The gametes produced could be either AB, Ab, aB or ab giving the following results:

AB Ab aB ab

AB AABB AABb AaBB AaBb

Ab AABb AAbb AaBb Aabb

aB AaBB AaBb aaBB aaBb

ab AaBb Aabb aaBb aabb

This would result in:
25% (1/4) het blazing blizzard (AaBb)
12.5% (1/8 ) het blizzard (AABb)
12.5% (1/8 ) het albino (AaBB)
12.5% (1/8 ) albino het blizzard (aaBb)
12.5 % (1/8 ) blizzard het albino (Aabb)
6.25% (1/16) normal (AABB)
6.25% (1/16) albino (aaBB)
6.25% (1/16) blizzard (AAbb)
6.25% (1/16) blazing blizzard (aabb)

If one of the het albino and blizzard (AaBb) animals were bred with an albino the following would occur:

The het albino and blizzard has the genotype AaBb
The albino has the genotype aaBB

AB Ab aB ab

aB AaBB AaBb aaBB aaBb

aB AaBB AaBb aaBB aaBb

This would result in 25% het albino (AaBB), 25% het albino and blizzard (AaBb), 25% albino (aaBB) and 25% albino het blizzard (aaBb).

If one of the het albino and blizzard animals were bred to a blizzard, it would result in 25% het blizzard (AABb), 25% het albino and blizzard, 25% blizzard (AAbb) and 25% blizzard het albino (Aabb).

Well, I think that covers most things, if I’ve missed anything out or made any mistakes then please let me know and I’ll correct them. Also, as I said at the beginning, please feel free to ask any questions!


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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2006, 07:32:33 pm »

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WOW

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liam1t
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2006, 09:00:51 pm »

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god bless you jame lol haha

i think i actually get it now.

thankyou

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vavavoomy
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2006, 09:16:55 pm »

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i was lost once we got to multiple recessive genes..then i had brain faze and gave up lol

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James D
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2006, 10:33:44 pm »

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The multiple gene morphs are the most tricky to understand, but they follow the same basic principles as the morphs involving only one gene. Once you get your head around it, it all seems to make sense! I find genetics very interesting and it is something I'm hoping to look into more in my second and third year of my degree!

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lalaliZard
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2006, 11:22:49 pm »

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whoa...

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elmer
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2006, 11:27:55 pm »

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This would result in:
25% (1/4) het blazing blizzard (AaBb)
12.5% (1/8 ) het blizzard (AABb)
12.5% (1/8 ) het albino (AaBB)
12.5% (1/8 ) albino het blizzard (aaBb)
12.5 % (1/8 ) blizzard het albino (Aabb)
6.25% (1/16) normal (AABB)
6.25% (1/16) albino (aaBB)
6.25% (1/16) blizzard (AAbb)
6.25% (1/16) blazing blizzard (aabb)

So out of 16 hatchlings stastically speaking you would have 9 normal looking leo's that you wouldn't know what Genotype they are.

Blazing blizzards aren't really that expensive so they must be bred cleaner than this example now there's a load about?

Good thread, very interesting


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James D
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2006, 09:23:56 am »

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I'm glad people are finding this useful


Quote from: elmer on July 16, 2006, 11:27:55 pm
So out of 16 hatchlings stastically speaking you would have 9 normal looking leo's that you wouldn't know what Genotype they are.


Yes that is correct.


Quote from: elmer on July 16, 2006, 11:27:55 pm
Blazing blizzards aren't really that expensive so they must be bred cleaner than this example now there's a load about?


Obviously you could breed a blazing blizzard to a blazing blizzard and you would get 100% blazzing blizzards...I was just showing how you could make one from scratch

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jag160605
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2006, 08:32:00 pm »

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i would love to learn but that was way too much for my little brain

plus ive had a drink so im not taking it all in atm lol

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Brian
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2006, 03:58:55 am »

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In Leopards is there only one gene for albino or can you end up with an albino from a defect at a different gene. i.e. stopping the p igmentation somewhere else along the "pathway".

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James D
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2006, 12:47:39 pm »

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There are 3 strains of leopard gecko, none of which are compatible with eachother....... if you breed a tremper with a bell albino for example, all the babies will be normal het bell and tremper albino. This is something I forgot to mention above

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Author Topic: Genetics Explained........Hopefully! (Read 683 times)
rogue
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2006, 02:36:10 pm »

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The part that i don't understand which is relevent to myself is how can a cross with a super mack snow and a SHTCT produce a colour mix of babies.
So far mine have been white and black but i've only hatched two. I've been told some may look normal,yellow and black,but these will still be mack snows.
I was thinking these would be SHTCTs het for mack snow. STEVE.

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James D
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2006, 11:14:22 pm »

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In theory, a super mack snow crossed with a SHTCT should produce only mack snows (as you have had so far). I'm not sure how the hypo and tangerine traits will affect this though.
As the mack snow gene is co-dominant, an animal cannot look normal, but carry the gene....

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geckolover2006
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2006, 06:57:39 pm »

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im very confused right now....

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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2006, 05:29:53 pm »

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It is complicated, but interesting. The Mulitple Recessive Gene part is the one that goes right over my head, hoping it might click into place though.

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justin-branam
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2006, 05:45:33 am »

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this really helps to explain it. for those of you younger members out there, just pay real close attention in biology class when you learn about "Punnett Squares, which i had totally fogotten about!

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babygirl3450
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2006, 03:29:51 pm »

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I got to the first section, then gave up lol I really just cant understand it, its to confusing! lol. o well...

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mikeyman
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Re: Genetics Explained........Hopefully!
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2006, 04:46:27 pm »

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I have recently started learning about Genetics, mainly in Lepard Geckos as I will be breeding them next year.
It makes more sense to me more know than it used to and feel I could go as far as producing patternless albinos or blazing blizzards if I wanted to.
For now though Im probably only gonna be getting reduced spotting, maybe near on hypos next year and reduced spotting het patternless's. I hope

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Hi evry one, im just starting up my own collony of leo's i curently have 2 females 1 high yellow and the other is an albino tangerine, i was just wondering if anyone could give me an ideas of whot morph male id need to get to produce some nice morphs, and could anyone tell me how much jungle leos usually go for, thanks.
 
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