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Sorry Colin, you just argued that they weren't settling in, even though so far you said they became bolder, and then went on to say they became shy when you put them into the planted viv.

So, what you are saying basically is that they had nowhere to hide when you had them in quarantine. This isn't demonstrating their been bolder with less decor, but rather that the poor sods didn't have enough hiding places. Even the boldest frogs tend to be shy at first, coming out more as they settle in. Many of the shyer species however if you don't provide more cover are a lot lot shyer. If you then reduce that cover, they WILL go back to been shy. Where bolder species you can reduce the cover a bit at a time and they stay bold. It's nothing to do with you reducing cover, more that there's nowhere to hide.

In other words, your 'experiment', or rather the source of your theory, was done back to front and doesn't prove your conclusion. You took your frogs from very very little cover, to lots of cover, with the most likely reason you saw them more in quarantine been that they either had nowhere to hide or felt it too far away so instead stayed put, not because they were bolder without the cover.

Your comments regarding where you keep them have nothing to do with this debate, that's an entirely different matter and one that I would agree on completely, hence I keep my frogs in rooms we frequent. I have had frogs reared in very quiet rooms, and they are very shy for a lot longer than ones reared in busier environs.

Ade
 

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They did have hiding places in the quarantine vivarium as I said they had cork hides but when they had more hiding places in a planted vivarium they were shyer.It was no experiment it was a fact whether you believe it or not.
You can deduce what you like from this or not I dont really care because you are always looking for an argument.
 

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I never said I didn't believe that you saw them more in the quarantine viv Colin. I am merely pointing out to you that it is quite probably that your conclusions from this are most likely wrong.

I'm not looking for an argument at all, in fact I would respectfully point out that you arrived on this thread debating with the OP regarding their beliefs in a far more forceful manner than I have.

If you don't like the feeling that you are 'arguing', learn to accept that your opinion is not the only one that counts, and that other people may have differing opinions to you.

Regards

Ade
 

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I
If you don't like the feeling that you are 'arguing', learn to accept that your opinion is not the only one that counts, and that other people may have differing opinions to you.

Regards

Ade
With respect thats like the kettle calling the pot black isn`t it?
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Hi Beanie.
How are the wee critters getting on ?

Mike
Great thanks Mike! In a couple days I'll make a thread in the lizard section - as Ade pointed out it doesn't really belong here so I don't want to parasitise the amphibian section - I just thought the build might be relevant :)
 

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Great thread! iv learned more about Day geckos in this one thread than i learned from the book i was given...and will definately be putting the idea of getting some on the back burner :lol2: Really great looking viv by the way, i always like to see people reflecting back on what they have in the wild and trying to recreate it rather than improvise alternatives. At the very least it shows a desire to learn more about the species you will be putting in there.
Also, congrats on the wedding :2thumb:
 
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I have to agree with Jay here. It is a well known phenomenon with darts that the more cover you provide the less they use it as they feel safer knowing that if needed they are always close to cover.

Before you argue that your splashbacks were the opposite Colin, please allow me to suggest that what you observed was your frogs settling in over time, rather than been bolder with less cover.

I refuse to get involved in a debate re day geckos however, as end of the day this is the amphibians section, not the lizards section.

Regards
We don't want to be agreeing to much it might spoil our image lol. But it is demonstrated regularly in research and in practise with various animals including darts true frogs and other snakes and lizards. Red eyed tree frogs deomonstrate this perfectly.


Sorry Colin, you just argued that they weren't settling in, even though so far you said they became bolder, and then went on to say they became shy when you put them into the planted viv.

So, what you are saying basically is that they had nowhere to hide when you had them in quarantine. This isn't demonstrating their been bolder with less decor, but rather that the poor sods didn't have enough hiding places. Even the boldest frogs tend to be shy at first, coming out more as they settle in. Many of the shyer species however if you don't provide more cover are a lot lot shyer. If you then reduce that cover, they WILL go back to been shy. Where bolder species you can reduce the cover a bit at a time and they stay bold. It's nothing to do with you reducing cover, more that there's nowhere to hide.

In other words, your 'experiment', or rather the source of your theory, was done back to front and doesn't prove your conclusion. You took your frogs from very very little cover, to lots of cover, with the most likely reason you saw them more in quarantine been that they either had nowhere to hide or felt it too far away so instead stayed put, not because they were bolder without the cover.

Your comments regarding where you keep them have nothing to do with this debate, that's an entirely different matter and one that I would agree on completely, hence I keep my frogs in rooms we frequent. I have had frogs reared in very quiet rooms, and they are very shy for a lot longer than ones reared in busier environs.

Ade
Have to agreed with ade here. Its demonstrated in research quite regularly with frogs and with ades favourite day geckos.


I never said I didn't believe that you saw them more in the quarantine viv Colin. I am merely pointing out to you that it is quite probably that your conclusions from this are most likely wrong.

I'm not looking for an argument at all, in fact I would respectfully point out that you arrived on this thread debating with the OP regarding their beliefs in a far more forceful manner than I have.

If you don't like the feeling that you are 'arguing', learn to accept that your opinion is not the only one that counts, and that other people may have differing opinions to you.

Regards

Ade
agreed



It is Beanie. ;) Some of us were discussing it in relation to keeping frogs in there before. ;)

Ade

I can discuss it with frogs too just not darts lol.

Looking forward to the end of the month.

jay
 

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A belated congrats on the wedding, all my best to you and Mr McDaid (before you think I'm psychic or a stalker I used to work with your fella in Sheffield, he's a nice dude :2thumb:).

I like the tank, I know there was a bit of a debate about the size but aslong as the needs of the animal are taken into account that's all that matters. I need to do a tank with a filtered water system at some point, they look great.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Great Tank but won't the eco earth on the water land divider make the water dirty and murky?
This is quite an old thread now but anyway - no the eco earth is siliconed onto the bark divider just at the joins and this particular silicon holds onto it extremely well, none of the earth has moved at all even on the bits where the waterfall constantly flows.

A belated congrats on the wedding, all my best to you and Mr McDaid (before you think I'm psychic or a stalker I used to work with your fella in Sheffield, he's a nice dude :2thumb:).

I like the tank, I know there was a bit of a debate about the size but aslong as the needs of the animal are taken into account that's all that matters. I need to do a tank with a filtered water system at some point, they look great.
Thanks :2thumb: At BT was this?

The debate wasn't about the size, it was about what I'd chosen to put in (water area / no bamboo) and then turned into a general argument between other people lol.

I must take a few pictures and update with how the tank has grown in - Had to make some more tanks because the day geckos were growing so big - so far I'm having no problem keeping two to a tank this size because there is so much vegetation to hide in and none of them have drowned :2thumb:
 

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Thanks :2thumb: At BT was this?

The debate wasn't about the size, it was about what I'd chosen to put in (water area / no bamboo) and then turned into a general argument between other people lol.

I must take a few pictures and update with how the tank has grown in - Had to make some more tanks because the day geckos were growing so big - so far I'm having no problem keeping two to a tank this size because there is so much vegetation to hide in and none of them have drowned :2thumb:
It certainly was :2thumb:

Ah right. I remember reading the thread the first time round before it got bumped and remembering somebody saying it was too small so the argument must have then taken a diversion after that :lol2:. I'll have to go back and re-read it. I think it looks pretty good and like you say if there's enough vegetation and escape routes drowning shouldn't be an issue.
 

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That was me Ronny. :lol2:

Shame you didn't get a bigger viv really. It's going to be a pig to find anything that can be kept in such a small viv AND with water. The water area eats into the land mass rather a lot, ruling out quite a lot of frogs.

Ade
A moot point given it wasn't even intended for frogs really. ;)

Ade
 
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