[Heavenlyhogs]

Any futher slander in this forum will be taken up with my solicitor.
Heres the proof read it carefully.
I did not import illegally as such and i have NO criminal record.
There is no ringworm picture only eczema which can be confirmed by other sufferers aswell as my doctor.

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:01:55 +0000
CC:
Subject: Response to your Query : - RefWOE000088235 - african pygmy hedgehogs (Atelerix albiventris)

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email of 05 June.

I can confirm that Defra does not set specific requirements for transport of African Pygmy Hedgehogs, however the transport of all animals is governed by the Animal Welfare Act.
I hope this is helpful.
Yours sincerely,

Customer Contact Unit Defra

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)
​

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

so if my being a convicted criminal is lies and the fact that i DONT have ringworm among so many other things time to wonder what else is lies...
The 4 week old hoglet(pickles)had staph and many DECENT breeders have had this problem.My vet can confirm this.
For anyone with ANY knowledge of ringworm you will know it can come from anywhere and is as common as a cold and easily put right.Please do your homework on this.

 

[Ragmoth]

I have no idea what this is all about Heavenly, but you are quite right about ringworm. My step-dad caught ringworm from contaminated soil off his allotment!

I hope you are ok x

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

This is proof i did not intentionally break the law neither was i prosecuted.
Ringworm it is true are microscopic spores that are often airborne and in effect can come from anywhere,the school playground,your dog,your cat,other pets,soil,the ground it is around us all the time everywhere and is an oppurtunist fungai.

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

I MAINTAIN i love all my animals and breed to the best of my abilities but things don't always go to plan despite the best intentions,this senario seems pretty set up to me.despite having filthy rich parents i have got by by myself and dont run to mummy or daddy for handouts.I was raised better than that.:2thumb:

But as a lesson from this all future hoglets will be PRECAUTIONARILY treated for all manner of ailments.
At least i can hold my head high and say none of my hoglets have been born with deformaties and i will not mention any names thus avoiding the level of those involved who had this problem due to inbreeding and are involved in the slander.But it goes to show you will not always have 100% satisfaction no matter what you do from 100% of people.

And i have not been banned from purchasing pedigree gliders lol.
Anyway enough said
anyone who wants a hoglet in the future are welcome to visit me in my home which btw is undergoing massive redecoration and refurbishment(for the next tenants) which would explain why it isnt the palace that was expected lol
As forthe sofa myanimals are not allowed on the furniture,and this couple were inmy home for the best part of an hour with julie very relaxed and sat back in that same sofa lol.It's tattiness is down to my 2 disabled wild kids.We don't see the need to buy a new one until we have moved in the next few weeks,which is also why all the carpets are up and the furniture is stored.

OVER & OUT

 

[Chazybabe]

Also Defra state:

What does the Animal Welfare Act do?

It makes owners and keepers responsible for ensuring that the welfare needs of their animals are met.
These include the need:

1. For a suitable environment (place to live)
2. For a suitable diet
3. To exhibit normal behaviour patterns
4. To be housed with, or apart from, other animals (if applicable)
5. To be protected from pain, injury, suffering and disease

All details found here:
Defra, UK - Animal Health and Welfare - Animal Welfare - Animal Welfare Act

This is a photo of my hog as you sold him to me

I was not informed about the injury at all before you delivered him and he should not of been sold in this condition. Was also given no treatment for it.

At 4 weeks old you told me of his skin complaint, heres a photo

You also said he woud be sold with the vets records of it, a birth certificate made by you, his pedigree reg, free pet insurance for 6 weeks, a igloo house, a gaurentee, a fleece and some of his current food.

All you brought was banged up Pickle a fleece and a box of cat biscuits, nothing else. So was sold under false pretences and is against trading standereds.

It has everything to do with this forum as this is where i purchased him from and where she gained my trust and this is where you sell to unknowing trusting people.

I now have ring worm heres a photo of this and of Julies too.

Julies

Mine

Close up of Julies

On the other thread someone said Julies dates were all wrong for her and her step daughter to catch it, but how have i got it too? I have never met Julie or Ian.

We have all had it confirmed on our hogs and on us that this is ringworm the hogs have been tested and Leo (Julie & Ians hoglet) also internal worm infestation, and seeing Pickle produces nice green poos and is on a diet of only cat food i got a feeling when i get the results tomorrow he will be riddled with worms to which means another trip into Glouster from Clevedon.. Treatment is not cheap neither is transport as i do not drive and this is the closest exotic vet that deals with APH's.

Ring worm is often diagnosed as Infected Eczema aswel as other things as alot of doctors have either not seen ringworm or diagnose it wronly as there are diffrent types and unless your clued up on it in particular your not going to know doctor or not, where vets on the other hand come across it alot.

Here is the picture of your hand. Even if this is Eczema surely you wouldnt be handling them bare hands like you did when i collected mine as not to catch germs from there poo as Pickle was covered in it and so was your hands. If your hands are that bad as they obviously are in the picture surely Pickle at 4 weeks should not been held in the photo above with his skin complaint..

Pickle instead of living like this

Now lives in basic conditions like this

For 5 weeks maybe more he will stay like that just the bare minimal
And will also be held like this

With very limited human contact as i will not risk giving it to my other animals which there is alot of and as a mouse breeder will have to personally keep mice back for a quartine period before selling any to make sure time elapses and that any signs would be present.

Shell i never slated you i wondered about things like his nose, hell i even posted in this forum on your thread about friendly litter that i was happy and i WAS i let the nose thing slide as i wanted to belive you were a good breeder and that it was nothing. Just a glitch (one of them things).

I even stood up for you and have had posts removed off this site and others, also slated other people and hedgehog breeders for having a go at you, but i realised they were right, im not trying to sound mean shell its just they tried giving you advise and help but you shoved it back in there faces.

I liked you and thought you were a nice person i might not agree with the way you do things and all the lies but i dont think your a purposely bad person and didnt go out of your way to do any of this its just the things you did and not taking the advice of others led to this..

If we had met in different circumstances i would still be a fan, but im sad to say currently im not, as iv just had to part with my limited funds, im 18 been ill for 6 years dont work as am unable to and all my money goes on my pets as it is, now i wont be doing xmas as il be doing treatments and hog bathing, thats just aslong as the many other animals i own do not catch it.

You said you would re emberse me for my vet bill for Pickles treatment will you please try and make amense and still do this please? I dont want to start a war or a slang match iv just stated facts but i would ike your help now in paying for his treatment in turn so i can get Pickle the best care he needs and make a little unhappy hog happy again.

Chaz.

 

[pgag_1_york]

who said you were a convicted criminal? we all know you were done for not having a TV licence tho :whistling2:

just find it funny how you called me unethical for homing hog based on email and phone calls but you do the same thing yourself, what happened to practice what you preach?

fact is you didn't inform the owner of the hoglet who had staph or mention the fact he had a open wound on his nose till he was delivered

2 of your hoglets you sold have been confirmed with having ringworm and you did nothing to help the ppl you sold to other than blame them for it any responsible breeder would be doing anything in there power to help not trying to lie there way out of it,

they didn't even go with care sheets or anything stated in your ads ie insurance and CBs was not registered

you have been makin a point of slaggin me off on various forum for ages now and iv not bothered to post on them - take your sick pet names topic - and look no1 agreed with you there, all of you bitchin on the glider forum only got me put on the recommended breeder list, so thanks for that :2thumb:

if the only unethical thing you can say about me is a cpl of my hogs name just jog on luv

you can say what you want but you have 2 very unhappy ppl who got hoglets from you so well done for doing things to the best of your abilities great job

also funny how you get a topic closed for having nothing to with the forum but then just start another!

funny how you have alienated yourself from most of the hog and glider community from lies isnt it

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

sorry rich youre blocked cant see what ya saying.
Chaz i have correspondance here between yourself and i notifying you of everything and offering to pay for pickles treatment(i can post it all if you like) which you agreed to.My listing on hedgehog breeding list was modified months ago but not yet put in place by them,so i'm afraid that's not as it is now and therefor trading standards is irrelevant to that listing.
When i met you with pickle you never expressed any concern over the scuff on his nose which had scabbed over when delivered...you had only paid a small deposit,if you were so concerned why take him knowing if there were possible problems that you couldnt afford vet fees?Why take on extra responsibility?
Why not express your unhappyness to meinstead of going and behind my back thats a little underhanded no?
You need to all get a grip on ringworm and read up.

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

and im pretty sure if that was a serious injury on his nose he wouldnt be looking so good in the last pic with no visible scarring...

 

[Chazybabe]

Maybe you should wait untill you are setlled in your new home and have the resources so instead of saying your selling a hoglet with this that and the other but turn up on the train with nothing but a blanket so he didnt freeze and a box of cat biscuits. Then no one would complain you miss sold, or dont say that the hogs come with these things in the first place or notify them on the change of plan so they can choose to go through with the purchase or not i didnt have much choice by the time the hog had travelled 4 hours worth in a train and was faced with him and you i couldnt exactly say go back and get the rest of the things! And i wasnt going to send Pickle away again im a big softy and couldnt do that to him make him travell another 4 hours back for something that wasnt his fault.

At the end of the day the hogs come 1st putting aside everything else its in the hogs interests we do the best for them now you MAINTAIN you love your animals so whether you dislike me for being brutaly honest please as his breeder and a animal lover your self can we put are problems aside and refund me the £150 as i paid £150 for a happy healthy hoglet, not one that is going to cost more in vet bills than he cost bless him!

This way the more money i have to spare the more tests i can have done to really get to the bottom of this and pay for the best money can buy. That way we will all be safe in the knowledge that my hoglet will not be infecting anyother people/pets and that it will also point out any unknown problems in your own herd if theres anything else that could of been passed on.

Im not having ago Shell im to concerned about Pickle to be angry or to waste time and piss you off with squabling, i just want to be able to at least hug my hog not watch him at a distance its unbearable!

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

i was always hygenic when handling anyhoglets and the time the condition was bad i hardly handled them at all and when i did my hand was either plastered or bandaged...in fact when ian and julie collected leo i held the hoglet in the uneffected hand.And it is eczema and that's been confirmed by a doctor very very familiar with it.If it was anything else it would not be gone now would it because the antibiotics i was on would have had no effect.

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

i have offered to cover the treatment chaz to clear the ringworm and since there's no evidence it came from my home this is generous,if you hadnt have gone about this the way you did chaz and come to me first you know what? i would have happily given you a FULL refund.
And i sent you an email to tell you i wouldbe sending pickle christmas presents which would have included the things you mentioned were missing.

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

You have ALL Pickles vet history authorised for release to your own vet.

 

[Chazybabe]

1) i never said it was bad ect ect (his nose that is) i just said i wasnt told of his scab at all before you brough him down.

2) I can afford vet bills, just not to buy friends and family anything, i get £100 a week and its all going on Pickle atm his current bill for todays was £57 that means im not having any left over for me for xmas as i stated, as in a 3 weeks he will be back to the vet which will cost more again so the money i have saved in the mean time will be going on this as well as the norm things like food ect and im lucky that my parents would pay but i want dont want them to, im asking you as his breeder to make a example of how much you care and remburse me so i can pay for extras liek skin scraps not just treatment for the obvious but actually find out which type it is ect which will help!

3) Im not going behind your back i seeked other views opinions and facts off others as to widen my knowledge in APH which i think is a good thing to do. When i look into buying even a pair of hair straightners i dont just go for the 1st ones i tend to look at all the pros and cons and ask others in the no not just 1 person. (hair straightners are the only example i can think of at half 2am! as i can see them lol!)

4) I already liked him and had some photos of him form you as he was growing up i was already in love with him im a soppy 18yo you expect me to turn down the cutest bundle ever and make it travel for 4hours when hes already stressed and covered in poo as he didnt travel well? No i was liek a over broody woman just wanting to take him there and then.

5) I had no idea of the nose thing before you came and i did ask when i saw it, well no you told me before you even got him out the carry case i then asked how it was caused if it was ok ect.. to which you said it was a rub from rooting under food bowl and was fine and would just drop off (the scab not his nose that is!!) But when i posted on a forum saying look at my gawjus new baby people started saying how did he get that and it looked serious so obvioulsy i worried!! And sought advice. Scab then came off and all is fine, all im saying is should have said before selling. Not there and then as im handing you my cash.

Iv got a grip of ringworm im hating that word so much! Iv read and read so much in the last week on it i could probably tell you in my sleep!

I dont care that i have something for some one thats been ill since she can remember i dont really care its that i dont want to give it to friends as at my age its not going to go down well with a bunch of other teenagers! And i dont want to have to treat all the pets! As then i would be over stretched which most people would be having to treat all at once theres not many that could afford that! I could just but that would be it just that nothing else for a while!

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

For the record i have NEVER stated my hogs will be uk reg.
ALL my hogs ARE reg internationally.And yes they do come with birth certificate which will be fowarded to you.

 

[Chazybabe]

I never said they would be uk reg i just said reg wether it be USA or Irish i really dont mind but i had none of any kind.

So you dont want Pickle to get the best treatment then? As i can afford to treatment but i want to cover all areas and tests so i know hes had everything possible done for him, as hes like a child to me, im sure you would be the same with your children.

Also at this rate the vet bills will be MORE than £150 so in my eyes full refund if fair as other wise you could be paying alot more.

Where was this advert changed to? Please may you send the link.

And Shell this is about Pickle, iv not said you have a criminal record im not saying your hosue is this that and the other, im not slating you, i just want the same as i hope you do and thats finding out why Pickle is ILL!

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

I understand that Chaz of course you want varied opinion but as pickles breeder i should have been informed of how unhappy you were with things.I should have been 2nd in line to the vet.That's what i'm saying.

 

[Chazybabe]

When i realised that Julie had had a problem with ringworm and you emailed and asked if i had i said yes as i had this rash no idea what it was and then it all clicked, the fact that pickle was all flakey i had tried bathing ect but hadnt got any better i asked you on advice for this you said it was prob just quilling and he should be ok as none of yours had symptoms and should of if Pickle or the other hog Leo had ringworm thing is they do just its hard to notice on something covered in spines, so you said to just bath him with oatsoap or something? But when this doesnt work and im wondering what else i can do after iv asked and tried you and your suggestion i thought id ask others. Wasnt so much underhand but in need of help and my vet didnt even no there was such a thing as a APH! Hence the ong trip to a vet that did!

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

Of course i care about his welfare and well being why the hell would i even be bothering with this if i wasn't.
Paying for his treatment is fair unless it's without a doubt it came from here.
Any futher testing ect is down to you.
You will need to send me the vets receipts.

 

[Heavenlyhogs]

usually vite oil oatmeal is recommended for dry skin.
Have you asked hedgehogcentral about this,they are far more clued up because they have been keepers longer....
As stated although there's nothing to confirm where this originated from i'm still happy to help...and i think this is best sorted off the forums now...or it could go on forever.