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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
it's only Carpet Pythons i keep,so can only comment on the Carpet python market.....

i have been wondering lately,if all the top European Carpet Breeders,talk to each other and discuss pricing ?

with " each others help ",do they all go out their way,to keep the new " top quality" stuff priced high for as LONG as possible....

also do they discuss with each other,what the price drops will be each year ?

or do they,DO THEIR OWN THING regards prices ?

this post is NOT for flaming top breeders,but more to discuss HOW snakes are priced

i would be interested in your thoughts on price fixing in the snake world......

any species...high end...top quality...Retics,Boas,Royals,etc,etc

do the few top breeders talk to each other and AGREE on prices they will charge ?

please politely discuss...

thanks in advance for your input

cheers shaun

P.S.i'm NOT having a go at anyone or trying to be cheeky,i'm just pondering on how snakes arrive at their market prices ?

cheers shaun : victory:
 

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This is a very good question, and one I would like to know the answer to.

I asked Paul at UK pythons what he thinks he'd sell any future hypo bredli at, he didn't give much away though. Just said he doesn't know, as he has never sold them before.

Surely, these big breeders do have to speak among themselves, it has to be in their best interest. If they didn't, prices would fall too quickly.

To be honest though, I have no idea. I do know though, if I were a big breeder, I would like to be in contact with other breeders. I think it would be mutually beneficial.
 

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Prices are usually set based on demand and rarity and quality - nothing else I would imagine - Having said that if someone breeds say a moonglow boa worth 1k-1.5k and some other bloke breeds them and sells them for 500£ - Hes not gonna make many friends with other breeders of them. BUT. most breeders say there not in it for the money so who gives a shit?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Prices are usually set based on demand and rarity and quality - nothing else I would imagine - Having said that if someone breeds say a moonglow boa worth 1k-1.5k and some other bloke breeds them and sells them for 500£ - Hes not gonna make many friends with other breeders of them. BUT. most breeders say there not in it for the money so who gives a shit?
i hear what your saying mate

what i was asking peoples thoughts on were.....

if there are say 5 or 10 breeders,with the monopoly on certain new morphs,traits,etc...

would they talk amongst themselves and come up with a pricing strategy ?????

cheers shaun
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This is a very good question, and one I would like to know the answer to.

I asked Paul at UK pythons what he thinks he'd sell any future hypo bredli at, he didn't give much away though. Just said he doesn't know, as he has never sold them before.

Surely, these big breeders do have to speak among themselves, it has to be in their best interest. If they didn't, prices would fall too quickly.

To be honest though, I have no idea. I do know though, if I were a big breeder, I would like to be in contact with other breeders. I think it would be mutually beneficial.
Dan mate i had NO specific Carpet Breeder in mind when i posted,it was more of a general....

do you think they all get in touch and say...

right then...these go for this much...and we will let these go for that much,etc,etc

is it a conspiracy :gasp::whistling2:

cheers shaun: victory:
 

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It's like anything the more rare the more value.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It's like anything the more rare the more value.
i get that mate,but.....

my question is...

if 5 or 10 breeders have something rare...do they get in touch with each other,to discuss pricing ?

or is it every man for themselves ?

cheers shaun
 

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i get that mate,but.....

my question is...

if 5 or 10 breeders have something rare...do they get in touch with each other,to discuss pricing ?

or is it every man for themselves ?

cheers shaun
They must get togther and have a cup of tea and a digestive, while discussing what x morph is worth
 

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Dan mate i had NO specific Carpet Breeder in mind when i posted,it was more of a general....

do you think they all get in touch and say...

right then...these go for this much...and we will let these go for that much,etc,etc

is it a conspiracy :gasp::whistling2:

cheers shaun: victory:
I think they do, like I say, it would mutually beneficial to do so.

I know it's different but my brother is majorly into his tropical fish. He is a breeder and has some of the only pairs of fish in the UK. He is good friends with other breeders, importers from down south and they swap fish and help each other out with species all the time.

If you isolate yourself, I think you'd be cutting your nose off despite your face.
 

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Maybe that might happen with very top morphs

But any decent breeder who knows they will have 'Flavour of the month'
really should keep it very quiet
Too many release them far too early and getting BIG bucks for a short time

If I had something very special exactly zero people would know for at least 2 years and probably 3 years plus

Then I would sell only hatchling females for the first year
That then gives me the entire market for a further 2 years
Before anyone else had bred the hatchies I had sold for an exorbitant amount, I would hit the market VERY hard with about 200+ hatchies plus sub adults

By them my next morph developed from these ones would be ready to hit the market too

So discussing too much especially with other breeders is most definitely a losing scenario in many cases
 

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Maybe that might happen with very top morphs

But any decent breeder who knows they will have 'Flavour of the month'
really should keep it very quiet
Too many release them far too early and getting BIG bucks for a short time

If I had something very special exactly zero people would know for at least 2 years and probably 3 years plus

Then I would sell only hatchling females for the first year
That then gives me the entire market for a further 2 years
Before anyone else had bred the hatchies I had sold for an exorbitant amount, I would hit the market VERY hard with about 200+ hatchies plus sub adults

By them my next morph developed from these ones would be ready to hit the market too

So discussing too much especially with other breeders is most definitely a losing scenario in many cases
That is genius longqi, just reading that makes me want to become a breeder!

Sooooo, what you got up your sleeve??
 

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That is genius longqi, just reading that makes me want to become a breeder!

Sooooo, what you got up your sleeve??
I know you wont tell anyone so its just our secret ok



But my Black Mamba Eastern Timber Rattler is ready for release soon
Choose them so that you can hear them before that big black mouth hits you
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Maybe that might happen with very top morphs

But any decent breeder who knows they will have 'Flavour of the month'
really should keep it very quiet
Too many release them far too early and getting BIG bucks for a short time

If I had something very special exactly zero people would know for at least 2 years and probably 3 years plus

Then I would sell only hatchling females for the first year
That then gives me the entire market for a further 2 years
Before anyone else had bred the hatchies I had sold for an exorbitant amount, I would hit the market VERY hard with about 200+ hatchies plus sub adults

By them my next morph developed from these ones would be ready to hit the market too

So discussing too much especially with other breeders is most definitely a losing scenario in many cases
^^^^^
i'm thinking thats exactly what the top breeders in the Europe do mate...its a Carpet Clique :whistling2:: victory:

and they share it amongst themselves....

UNTIL... someone outside the group,like high end hobby breeders,blows the market wide open,with affordable high end snakes :no1:

imo,said high end hobby breeders,still re coup their high costs,of originally buying in the top end stuff,by selling at an affordable price,because every snake they have for sale,flys out the door within weeks,also they may only be covering the cost,of buying 1 pair of expensive morphs,etc,also they have no overheads,as they breed in their own homes and have no need for facilitys,staff,etc

cheers shaun
 

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I don't breed anything (apart from humans, and that was more of an experiment many years ago :gasp:)
But to be honest, I don't see a problem with breeders fixing prices between themselves.
With all but the absolute top kiddies making little or no money from breeding snakes in the long run, why shouldn't they get maximum returns for their efforts?
I would guess that it takes years, and £000's to build up their experience/stock/gene pool, not to mention reputation. How much did it cost them in the run up?

If you can buy snake "X" for £30, then why anyone in their right mind would pay thousands of pounds just to say that they have one in a different colour is completely beyond me :whistling2:
But, each to their own :2thumb:
 

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like any business I assume that breeders will set their prices for regular morphs by assessing the competition and the market place. No one is going to put hypo blah di blah up for £1000 if their competition has them advertised for £750 otr £1500. They dont want to price themselves out of the market and they dont want to lose profit.

If it is a brand new combination/morph, well they will have been working towards it for several years and planning how to get what they want. They will also have a fairly strong idea of that they want/need to price it at in order to make the right selection.

I dont think that they do agree a market value - I guess when breeders are mates they may chat about it, but I dont think there is a secret inner circle with a catalogue and a pricing gun
 

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You have to realise as well that breeders, well good ones, also have to protect their customers. If you have a customer that shells out 5,000 - 10,000 on high end morphs, and the following year you slash your prices, you aren't going to have high end customers for very long.
 

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Depends on the morph...

Polygenic will be worth more at the start due to the amount of work put in to get to a "desirable" point. Hypo bredlis and stripes... They only hold they're value for a short time as you get a pair showing the desired polygenic trait and you can keep churning them out (as well as anybody that has pairs of them)

Recessive hold a bit better usually take a few years to drop as you create recessive morphs to start with and these usually get released first at about half the price of a full recessive animal (het albinos)

Co-doms... well we know what happened there when you can just get any co-dom and produce visual hets.

All of these are observations from the market over here.

Usually the first one to release the morphs sets the market price and others will then go within 10% less of that for the following releases after a couple of years.

The number of breeders that have the morph will force the price to drop due to competitions amongst themselves to sell them.

5 breeders now 5k a snake
10 breeders a couple of years later and 2 of them sell for 4k a snake
15 breeders later and the price drops again.

The more the breeders the less control they have on the market price and it becomes a competition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Sharpstrain

Terry (you made a great point with customer protection mate)

redink

thank you thats the type of coversations i was looking for.....

i'm not saying its a good or bad thing,i was merely pondering,if price agreements take place ?

and if so at what level ?

cheers shaun
 

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Not sure about keeping in touch with each other especially since many are in different countries, and with the amount of money involved, current economic crisis and backstabbing going on I doubt they would be foolish enough to email each other due to hacking (could be crazy talk, stranger things do and have happened). But if I was lucky enough to have a snake that not many other had, it would make sense to keep the prices the same as the others... unless you really wanted to piss off someone due to whatever reasons?

But yeah, why crash the market? Oh yeah, competition and the muppets that go hand in hand with the snake business.

Make wise moves I say. Be careful who you sell your snakes to.. whoever is in such a lucky position that is.

My tuppence anyway.

Who knows, not me.

Gotta work, can't chat all day.
 
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