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You have to realise as well that breeders, well good ones, also have to protect their customers. If you have a customer that shells out 5,000 - 10,000 on high end morphs, and the following year you slash your prices, you aren't going to have high end customers for very long.
Spot on Sir!

Some people on here seem mainly concerned with how to get their hands on something very expensive for a knock down price....just think about that for a minute....
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Spot on Sir!

Some people on here seem mainly concerned with how to get their hands on something very expensive for a knock down price....just think about that for a minute....
as i said Terry brought up a great point.....

re think for a minute
that was the purpose of this thread to think/discuss the subject of pricing (but for longer than a minute:whistling2:)


re my Carpets
imo i most likely paid top dollar and sometimes more,to get EXACTLY what i wanted,so for me it's NOT about getting something expensive for cheap

cheers shaun
 

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Spot on Sir!

Some people on here seem mainly concerned with how to get their hands on something very expensive for a knock down price....just think about that for a minute....
Yup. You have to either source importers, luck out with a het-for-new-thing you bought as a normal, or predict the market.

If I got into breeding, at this stage I doubt there'd be any point to breeding royals for profit, since anything unique enough is going to destroy my bank account and by the time all the hets have been bred and bred back, that morph will probably be out of vogue. I'd be better off looking at upcoming species that are just getting morphs in and riding the wave.

Tangent! Sorry.
I think, to refer to the OP, that its a case of knowing your market, researching thoroughly, and guessing a lot.
It is good for breeders to be in cahoots, but not too closely. In the animal business, where animal politics and genetic diversity are important, rivals are more likely to shake hands and talk than in other sectors.
 

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re my Carpets
imo i most likely paid top dollar and sometimes more,to get EXACTLY what i wanted,so for me it's NOT about getting something expensive for cheap

cheers shaun
Excatly mate... I paid cheap as chips for one of my carpets and the other one top dollar but so be it... I needed their genetics to create "my ideal" carpet. To be honest these days I prefer trades for reptiles I want with mates rather than sell them... money is good but a straight trade is better IMO.
 

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as i said Terry brought up a great point.....

re think for a minute
that was the purpose of this thread to think/discuss the subject of pricing (but for longer than a minute:whistling2:)


re my Carpets
imo i most likely paid top dollar and sometimes more,to get EXACTLY what i wanted,so for me it's NOT about getting something expensive for cheap

cheers shaun
I accept what you say above, but then I am also curious as to this comment....

"UNTIL... someone outside the group,like high end hobby breeders,blows the market wide open,with affordable high end snakes :no1:

imo,said high end hobby breeders,still re coup their high costs,of originally buying in the top end stuff,by selling at an affordable price,because every snake they have for sale,flys out the door within weeks,also they may only be covering the cost,of buying 1 pair of expensive morphs,etc,also they have no overheads,as they breed in their own homes and have no need for facilitys,staff,etc

cheers shaun"

I may be getting the wrong end of the stick, as I sometimes do, but it could be inferred that the top line suggest a hobby breeder crashing the market to be desirable, Hmmm, short term perhaps, but once a previously 'high-end' (I hate that term - all living creatures are high end in my opinion) snake is crashed in price, then they tend to lose their desirability overnight. The fickle morph keepers then tend to move on to the next 'high-end' snake hitting the market. In any case, breeders that do such things don't tend to last long as they lack business sense.

As for the comments about high-end hobby breeders, hmmm, is there any such thing as a high-end hobby breeder? Whilst breeding may not be such a person's profession, is anyone 'investing' large funds into breeding stock doing it purely as a hobby? Generally not I would say. As for having no overheads, hmm, even if a 'hobby' breeder does not put a value on their own time, there's the initial outlay on setup and livestock with depreciation as supply meets demand and prices drop, heating costs, equipment replacement costs from time to time, food (prices rising all the time), and there's also the potential for HMRC to take an interest in this cottage industry at some time, as animal rights groups draw to their attention the huge sums changing hands, it's very possible that this will be seized upon as an additional source of tax revenue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Excatly mate... I paid cheap as chips for one of my carpets and the other one top dollar but so be it... I needed their genetics to create "my ideal" carpet. To be honest these days I prefer trades for reptiles I want with mates rather than sell them... money is good but a straight trade is better IMO.
thats a good point mate

i would rather give carpet python hatchlings away for FREE,to those people who would go on to use them in great breeding projects,than take cash for them

at the minute i have a friend on here,that offered me a female Diamond for free,if his pair produce this season,all i have to do is pay for a courier

if my diamonds produce,there are a few carpet keepers i'd give free diamonds to as well

to be honest if a serious carpet keeper was interested in any hatchlings i produced,then i'd rather give them the snake,then get a couple of hatchlings back from them,once they go on to use it in a different breeding project

cheers shaun
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I accept what you say above, but then I am also curious as to this comment....

"UNTIL... someone outside the group,like high end hobby breeders,blows the market wide open,with affordable high end snakes :no1:

imo,said high end hobby breeders,still re coup their high costs,of originally buying in the top end stuff,by selling at an affordable price,because every snake they have for sale,flys out the door within weeks,also they may only be covering the cost,of buying 1 pair of expensive morphs,etc,also they have no overheads,as they breed in their own homes and have no need for facilitys,staff,etc

cheers shaun"

I may be getting the wrong end of the stick, as I sometimes do, but it could be inferred that the top line suggest a hobby breeder crashing the market to be desirable, Hmmm, short term perhaps, but once a previously 'high-end' (I hate that term - all living creatures are high end in my opinion) snake is crashed in price, then they tend to lose their desirability overnight. The fickle morph keepers then tend to move on to the next 'high-end' snake hitting the market. In any case, breeders that do such things don't tend to last long as they lack business sense.

As for the comments about high-end hobby breeders, hmmm, is there any such thing as a high-end hobby breeder? Whilst breeding may not be such a person's profession, is anyone 'investing' large funds into breeding stock doing it purely as a hobby? Generally not I would say. As for having no overheads, hmm, even if a 'hobby' breeder does not put a value on their own time, there's the initial outlay on setup and livestock with depreciation as supply meets demand and prices drop, heating costs, equipment replacement costs from time to time, food (prices rising all the time), and there's also the potential for HMRC to take an interest in this cottage industry at some time, as animal rights groups draw to their attention the huge sums changing hands, it's very possible that this will be seized upon as an additional source of tax revenue.
my point about the high end hobby breeder was nothing more than pointing out.....

that it usually takes a private/hobby breeder to bring down the prices....

if said private/hobby breeder did not exsist,then would the top breeders keep the prices high indefinatly,by discussing it with each other and making agreements on pricing

re high end hobby breeders
imo there are a few high end hobby breeders in the world of Morelia,people who bought very expensive snakes a few years ago (because they wanted to keep that type of carpet),who now have them producing,but sell at a 3rd to half the price of the big breeders

making once finacially out of reach carpets,affordable.....

imo yes they do it to cover their initial costs,but also because they want to see more carpet breeding projects out there,to see what can be produced regards good looking carpets

so the more people who incorporate hgh quality carpets into their own breeding projects,the more high quality carpets will be out there

imo with a lot of carpet keepers,its more about producing great looking snakes,than it is about the cash...

they take more pride in what they produce,rather than in what cash they made

^^^^^
hope that all makes sense

cheers shaun
 

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if said private/hobby breeder did not exsist,then would the top breeders keep the prices high indefinatly,by discussing it with each other and making agreements on pricing
not really mate, as then there would be no market for the original breeders to sell into, so prices would be dramatically lower anyway.

every breeder knows that prices drop, and at the end of the day something is still only worth what someone will pay.

2 top breeders could price a new morph at 20 grand but if no one pays it, they will have to drop the price until they get to a level someone bites at. The only thing they can really agree on is not to deliberatelly undercut each other, and thats not entirely the same as price fixing.

Obviously the first person or people to have the morph for sale will 'fix' the price, but that goes for anything, if you invented a new telephone you would set the price for it, BUT it would still have to fit somewhere around established market prices otherwise people wouldn't buy it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 · (Edited)
not really mate, as then there would be no market for the original breeders to sell into, so prices would be dramatically lower anyway.

every breeder knows that prices drop, and at the end of the day something is still only worth what someone will pay.

2 top breeders could price a new morph at 20 grand but if no one pays it, they will have to drop the price until they get to a level someone bites at. The only thing they can really agree on is not to deliberatelly undercut each other, and thats not entirely the same as price fixing.

Obviously the first person or people to have the morph for sale will 'fix' the price, but that goes for anything, if you invented a new telephone you would set the price for it, BUT it would still have to fit somewhere around established market prices otherwise people wouldn't buy it.
after i put this thread up,i realised i should NOT have used the word " fixing " Terry

i should have worded my title better,using something like price,discussions,collaborations,etc

i had NO specific breeder/breeders in mind,when i made this thread,merely wanted peoples views on how pricing,of new or rare snakes takes place

that said,i was also interested in peoples thoughts regarding,how far these breeders go in talking to each other and making agreements

my intention was NOT to paint anyone in a bad light

if i'm being honest,then Terry your posts have gave me a lot more insight into things mate (thanks)

cheers shaun
 

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after i put this thread up,i realised i should NOT have used the word " fixing " Terry

i should have worded my title better,using something like price,discussions,collaborations,etc

i had NO specific breeder/breeders in mind,when i made this thread,merely wanted peoples views on how pricing,of new or rare snakes takes place

that said,i was also interested in peoples thoughts regarding,how far these breeders go in talking to each other and making agreements

my intention was NOT to paint anyone in a bad light

if i'm being honest,then Terry your posts have gave me a lot more insight into things mate (thanks)

cheers shaun
no worries mate.

I didn't take it as you meaning anything in a bad way BTW.
 

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Re high end hobby breeders

In Aus most of the new carpet morphs and top of the line things like striped
jungles, paradox albinos etc etc were first produced by hobby breeders
Some of those breeders only have a few pairs but continually improve their releases
SXR produces some awesome beasties but within 3 years of release every man and his dog has them
GTPs have always been produced mainly by hobby breeders there

Price of jags drops nearly on a daily basis
When they were first smuggled into Aus they were worth a fortune
But as pure carpets that are free of the jag gene improve all the time
the jags are proving to be a pretty sad investment
 
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