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An hour and a half! I think you'd have been better off breaking this down into a few 20-30 minute sections.

It's impossible to generalise in a hobby with such a range of animals with such diverse needs.
 

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I would say it depends on the species and it's size as well as the size of the tubs but I will say this.... I would never house any of my adult animals in a rack system.neonates in a rack temporarily maybe but I don't think it's fair to keep any animal in an empty tub with no light for it's whole life just because the keeper wants to keep more animals he has the space to house in vivs. Just my opinion.
 

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I agree, with RGBeer. I wouldn't keep my adult reptiles in a rack as I believe they need space to move and climb. But I think it can be better for some baby reptiles as they do better in small spaces. But also they are nice to look at sometimes without disturbing them and that can't happen in a rack.
 

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Personally we had a Euro Rack for our Royals. No problems, snakes were out a lot with us, healthy with never any problems (other than fussy eaters) smaller in 33, bugger in 50L. We no longer have all as down too 2 now, with one up for sale so will have only my original left who will most likely be staying in 4x2 rub in our homemade rack when I find that size!
But we’ve had some here that have been horrendous with feeding unless in small rubs with a hide! Every time we tried putting up they’d go months without feeding again! So would have to downsize again and try again later. Others we got were in tiny rubs that when came to us it was a big upgrade for them.
Everyone if different and when you have a lot of royals Racks make sense. We had 10 so was great for us in the reptile outhouse. They all had orchid back, water dishes and either hides or some likes branches.
Each to their own though, If I had, had the room for 10 vivariums I may of used them, but they were very happy Royals here and out a lot with us. Now happy in their new homes and breeding too


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I agree, with RGBeer. I wouldn't keep my adult reptiles in a rack as I believe they need space to move and climb. But I think it can be better for some baby reptiles as they do better in small spaces. But also they are nice to look at sometimes without disturbing them and that can't happen in a rack.
Totally agree.
A nicely set out viv with hides , branches and foliage looks great and it’s fantastic to see them exploring and climbing.

Don’t see any point at all of keeping them in rubs ... opening the lid and watch them nervously dash back into their hide ( if they even have one ) .

We are all different and want different things ... if they are hooked on breeding then of course rubs must be a great option .... for the snake breeder .


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We have 11 snakes all in vivs. But we have the space for them (and a few spare). We are hoping to breed snakes at some point in which the babies will be going in racks as we have bought babies before and they just don't do well in the Viv straight away. That way it's space saving for us too, then when they get older we will move the keepers to vivs.
 

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We have 11 snakes all in vivs. But we have the space for them (and a few spare). We are hoping to breed snakes at some point in which the babies will be going in racks as we have bought babies before and they just don't do well in the Viv straight away. That way it's space saving for us too, then when they get older we will move the keepers to vivs.
Well that’s possibly the acceptable compromise :)


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Everyone has different opinions in the matter and I couldn't say that my way is right or others is wrong. I just do what I think it's best for the Reptiles. The important thing is that the reptile is healthy. Every reptile is different!
 

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Everyone has different opinions in the matter and I couldn't say that my way is right or others is wrong. I just do what I think it's best for the Reptiles. The important thing is that the reptile is healthy. Every reptile is different!
Again that’s very true ..
I do wonder if some confuse ‘surviving’ with thriving or being happy though ..


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Again that’s very true ..
I do wonder if some confuse ‘surviving’ with thriving or being happy though ..


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True. I am an animal lover and always think about how I think the animal or reptile should live before I get it. But I always research things like crazy ☺ I have some many reptiles now and I hope to have more as long as I know I can care for it 😁
 

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True. I am an animal lover and always think about how I think the animal or reptile should live before I get it. But I always research things like crazy I have some many reptiles now and I hope to have more as long as I know I can care for it
Yep .. I pick up worms , snails and slugs off the pavement when I’m dog walking so the idea of plonking a three foot snake into an 18” plastic box with a tiny dish of water really doesn’t cut it for me .

Occasionally I do get feelings of guilt .. keeping a living creature just for MY entertainment but then again I bred four of them myself so that complicates things somewhat :)

Mine all have nice vivs, hides , foliage and branches.. a couple do prefer smaller vivs and don’t eat as well when put in bigger vivs but that’s fine .


That may seem like an extreme example but I’ve seen endless rack systems on YouTube and I just don’t get it ..



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I agree, it's kind of up to the Reptile for me. I keep crested geckos also and again they are all different. Some snakes like being handled, while others hate it, I don't mean bite... Just hiss or slither away but usually (this is why royal pythons are my favourite snake) they just curl up in a ball. I love taking pictures of my reptiles but some just don't like it so I take pictures of them in their enclosure instead, not always a great picture but I enjoy it and I feel better knowing I haven't annoyed them. I even have a blog and website as I thought I might as well show off the reptiles ☺
 

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The important thing is that the reptile is healthy.
But how would you define or quantify healthy? Because it eats... Because it's warm... Because it breeds ?... It may not have any parasites or illness, but is that the only thing to use to justify keeping these wonderful creatures in draws ?

I agree that racks are great for hatchlings, mainly as in relation to their size the tubs are large, but once a Royal is 4-6 months old they do exceptionally well in a well furnished 1m long viv. As already mentioned, give them a tall enclosure and option to climb or sit up high in a branch and they will emulate a ETB or GTP... Access to UV and a decent day/night photo period are IMO criteria that rack systems fail to provide

The main issue here is that we have no real way of knowing how healthy our snakes are. Physically we get some idea, but mentally.... we just don't really know what impact keeping a royal (or other species for that matter) in a rack has on the snakes long term wellbeing. I've said it before, but Brian Barczyk was totally gobsmaked by how different his large retic behaved the day he removed it from its large plastic tub and gave it a huge planted enclosure with artificial trees and a pond to use... it was like a kid seeing a playground for the first time !
 

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But how would you define or quantify healthy? Because it eats... Because it's warm... Because it breeds ?... It may not have any parasites or illness, but is that the only thing to use to justify keeping these wonderful creatures in draws ?

I agree that racks are great for hatchlings, mainly as in relation to their size the tubs are large, but once a Royal is 4-6 months old they do exceptionally well in a well furnished 1m long viv. As already mentioned, give them a tall enclosure and option to climb or sit up high in a branch and they will emulate a ETB or GTP... Access to UV and a decent day/night photo period are IMO criteria that rack systems fail to provide

The main issue here is that we have no real way of knowing how healthy our snakes are. Physically we get some idea, but mentally.... we just don't really know what impact keeping a royal (or other species for that matter) in a rack has on the snakes long term wellbeing. I've said it before, but Brian Barczyk was totally gobsmaked by how different his large retic behaved the day he removed it from its large plastic tub and gave it a huge planted enclosure with artificial trees and a pond to use... it was like a kid seeing a playground for the first time !
I totally agree, I wish I could do that for my royals, I tried bioactive enclosures last year but they had other plans and destroyed every plant. I feel terrible at the moment as I've cleaned them out and they haven't much to play with (I'm waiting for my fake plants) and then I'm slowly doing all they're enclosures up again. Now I feel bad for a few weeks of being like that and they are still in a bigger enclosure with more in then those in a rub! Dinner people might just see it as a business or more snakes the better? I couldn't comment as I prefer vivs.

I would like to think that yes the reptiles are our pets, but in the wild they are less likely to live for as long did to predators so hopefully I'm improving their life somehow? (That might be more so for geckos than snakes though)
 

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But how would you define or quantify healthy? Because it eats... Because it's warm... Because it breeds ?... It may not have any parasites or illness, but is that the only thing to use to justify keeping these wonderful creatures in draws ?

I agree that racks are great for hatchlings, mainly as in relation to their size the tubs are large, but once a Royal is 4-6 months old they do exceptionally well in a well furnished 1m long viv. As already mentioned, give them a tall enclosure and option to climb or sit up high in a branch and they will emulate a ETB or GTP... Access to UV and a decent day/night photo period are IMO criteria that rack systems fail to provide

The main issue here is that we have no real way of knowing how healthy our snakes are. Physically we get some idea, but mentally.... we just don't really know what impact keeping a royal (or other species for that matter) in a rack has on the snakes long term wellbeing. I've said it before, but Brian Barczyk was totally gobsmaked by how different his large retic behaved the day he removed it from its large plastic tub and gave it a huge planted enclosure with artificial trees and a pond to use... it was like a kid seeing a playground for the first time !
What happened to that Barczyk guy !?

I used to see him all the time on Instagram or wherever.. now I just see that Jay guy


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I totally agree, I wish I could do that for my royals, I tried bioactive enclosures last year but they had other plans and destroyed every plant. I feel terrible at the moment as I've cleaned them out and they haven't much to play with (I'm waiting for my fake plants) and then I'm slowly doing all they're enclosures up again. Now I feel bad for a few weeks of being like that and they are still in a bigger enclosure with more in then those in a rub! Dinner people might just see it as a business or more snakes the better? I couldn't comment as I prefer vivs.

I would like to think that yes the reptiles are our pets, but in the wild they are less likely to live for as long did to predators so hopefully I'm improving their life somehow? (That might be more so for geckos than snakes though)
It’s a dilemma for sure ..

Which is best .. a probably shorter life in the great outdoors or a longer safer time in a jail cell .. ( vivs and rubs) .

Like a said the future four I bred myself wouldn’t have had ANY kind of life ..

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What vivs are you all using?
Since down to the one royal (When little girl sells) I now have the room on my bottom rack for a viv for Hideyoshi, ideally stacking one on top for my fat tail also.
Going to do bio as the other half used to have his in bio vivs and all did brilliant.
But just wondering what vivs you use so I can have a good look at which is best, and best to stack another on top! Thanking you


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