[Zincubus]

What vivs are you all using?
Since down to the one royal (When little girl sells) I now have the room on my bottom rack for a viv for Hideyoshi, ideally stacking one on top for my fat tail also.
Going to do bio as the other half used to have his in bio vivs and all did brilliant.
But just wondering what vivs you use so I can have a good look at which is best, and best to stack another on top! Thanking you


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I’ve had all manner of wooden vivs over the years ... some branded , some unnamed. They have all ‘worked’ equally well although the names ones are usually finished off better

They all stack but occasionally I’ve jammed a wooden ‘support’ in the middle of one or two of the longer ones - just to give them a bit of extra strength .

If you do stack them then I prefer to keep the warm ends at the same side as heat travels upwards ..

I’ve got a 4’ viv on top of a 5’ one and because the lower viv has a ceramic bulb heating the warm end to just above 90F the smaller one above is heated to over 80F ... even before the heat is switched on ..


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[M1chelle]

I use Pro Viv. But I haven't been successful with bioactive or keeping the cleanup crew alive and being that they are wood, limits the clean up crew a little. I've seen glass exo terras do well for bioactive, but not best for stacking

 

[Malc]

Zinc, when it was kept in a tub he used to get her out on the odd occasion when he felt it worth making a "handling large boids" video, more often to place it in a tub with water to aid a poor shed. He had spouted for years various fake news reasons as to how he justifies keeping all his snakes in racks, and was perfectly happy about it. When he built his reptarium he constructed a huge enclosure that went floor to ceiling and had a fake tree in one corner. The first time he put her in there she straight away climbed the tree and coiled under the upper heat lamp. She then came down and defecated in the pond he had fitted. Her behaviour also changed, she exhibited a more natural behaviour and now he has to be more careful getting her out. When he puts her back she goes straight up that tree every time.

He's still doing regular Vlogs on YT and with his son and wife do a weekly podcast on YT (and probably other streams).

Elisha, My Royals are in custom made vivs. Three ( one adult and two yearlings) are in 100cm x 40cm x 45cm (L x W x H), the other four (two adults and two yearlings) are in a unit that has four vivs each are 120cm x 38cm x 45cm (L x W x H). The 1m units are modified wardrobe carcases, the 1.2m unit was custom build from a huge sheet of melamine.

Here's the 4 way stack before being dressed out with cork bark, artificial plants and branches

And the converted wardrobe carcase in the study

 

[Malc]

And just to throw this into context, here's a image of my hatchling rack, used to house my hatchling Royals for the first 6 months (and young bairds). Note the hides and lighting

 

[elishacoombes9]

Brilliant Thankyou,
Heat same side, that’s fine, I was going to do a heat mat with royal and lamp with fat tail?
Now seeing I can clearly do both heat lamps I think that’s probably best for him! What cages are around yours as Hideyoshi does seem like a climber, especially when he’s out so wouldn’t want him climbing up and hurting himself!
The rack I have for the vivs is 120x60. So i guess making one to fit inside may be best option unless I can find one just below those dimensions!


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[M1chelle]

And just to throw this into context, here's a image of my hatchling rack, used to house my hatchling Royals for the first 6 months (and young bairds). Note the hides and lighting

View attachment 348781

What size hatchling rubs do you use and where might I get hold of any? I'm going to build (hopefully) a rack for hatchlings but I haven't found the right size boxes yet

 

[Zincubus]

Just relocated brian barczyk YouTube ...
I must have unsubscribed in error .

He’s got a fabulous TikTok account as well ...

BrianBarczyk on TikTok

@brianbarczyk 2.0m Followers, 27 Following, 33.0m Likes - Watch awesome short videos created by BrianBarczyk

vm.tiktok.com

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[Malc]

Elisha, I would recommend ceramics rather than lamps so you can maintain a warm environment and a decent photo period. If you do stack vivs it's always advisable to have the heat sources on the same side as he will radiate above the elements and penetrate through to the floor above. In the stack above, I have a 6mm thick layer of cork sandwiched between an 18mm thick melemine panel and the dividing panel that forms the floor as the heat from below would otherwise raise the substrate temp of the one above to a level I wasn't comfortable with. If stacking two seperate vivs you will have less of an issue as the heat from the viv below will have to pass through 36mm thickness of melamine, but I would still add a layer of cork anyway.

The tuns in the hatchling rack are modified wilko large shoe boxes 26cm x 36cm x 14cm (LxWxH) - £3 each From Wilko

 

[Malc]

What cages are around yours as Hideyoshi does seem like a climber, especially when he’s out so wouldn’t want him climbing up and hurting himself!

The heaters are white python ultra compact ceramics, 100w x 3 and 150w x 1 for the lower viv as it's colder at that level. The guards are Pro-Rep standard guards - You're looking at around £45 per viv for the holder, heater and guard.

Don't worry about the snake coming into contact with the guard

The guard measured 40-45c - the ceramic was 166c - run from a pulse proportional stat.

 

[al stotton]

Creativity is sometimes key when it comes to snake housing , Malc's above post nicely illustrates my point here.

There seems to be a perception within this debate to apply certain set rules , so Rubs /Racks v Wooden/Melamine Vivs always tends to be the overall viewing point. This often leads to viv folks pouring scorn onto racks and I totally respect everyone's viewpoint but I prefer to look outside the box (pun intended) and create what best suits my needs.

Racks don't have to have shallow tray type tubs , deeper tubs can utilize deeper substrates , deco , branches , hides etc. just as vivs can.

Tubs can be converted into plastic vivs.

Also you can combine both options to create a 'two in one' set up

 

[Roseanna]

Are those mesh lids on rubs? Really like that idea! Do you have any guides on how to make them?

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[al stotton]

I don't use mesh , plastic tubs have a frame attached which I then attached glass runners

 

[snekans]

I use both systems and I think it's true that there is no 'right' way as such, just different ways of doing it. I used to have all my snakes in vivariums, and when I had the space for 12 vivs that was fine. However now I do not, I'm in a much smaller place and I went from having a bedroom dedicated to the snakes to having a lounge full of them. I love them but for my own sanity had to do something to give myself more room. I chose 55 litre tubs that offer more floor space than my 3ft vivs, and 6 of the snakes moved in to those (specifically, 6 of the ones that were always less active in their vivs). They still have hides, branches, tubes, plants etc, just less height. For one in particular it's actually had a hugely positive effect. Luna is a corn snake and in the 8 years I've had her has always been extremely shy and quiet. No matter how many hides, plants etc she had, her cave was her life and I only saw her out of it to drink, poop or shed. She was also a finicky eater. Since moving in to the rack she's so much more active, she interacts with her branches and cork hide, burrows in the substrate and best of all, hasn't missed a feed. The snakes I left in the vivariums all make use of all the space they have and are inquisitive and outgoing, so I wouldn't personally be happy putting them in a rack where they could not climb.

Practically speaking I also like how easy the tubs are to clean over the vivs. There's no substrate getting stuck in runners, no dust leaking out the vents in the back, no sharp corners for poop to get wedged in. I just tip the tub in to the bin and wipe it with a cloth.

I have, however, seen racks done absolutely terribly with no hides and just a water dish in a tiny tray, so I can definitely understand why some people are against them. For me in my current situation it works well, and I hope my snakes are happy.

 

[Malc]

You see this is the problem when posting on a forum, what's posted can be interpreted in two ways. For me, I read Sneakans post as being more for his / hers convenience than the snakes. Rather than downsize the collection to suit the available space, they moved to racks to that the same number could be contained in a smaller space. However they recognise that whilst they are using the largest rubs possible, and have furnished them with hides etc, they also recognise the restriction of height.

But then read it another way, as that they have recognised the needs of the snakes, and have used substrate, hides, branches etc to provide a level of enrichment that most rack system fail to offer. It would be nice if the racks also had lighting installed, especially as it has been mentioned that Cornsnakes are kept in this way, and its generally accepted that UV is more a necessity for this species than others, but that is a shortfall of the commercial system rather than the keepers.

I can see the Viv vs Rub / Rack debate continuing until the end of time

 

[snekans]

Well, I think both those interpretations are true. My setup, to some extent, meets my own needs as well as those of my snakes as much as possible. Isn't that true though of all captive animals and all enclosures? Enclosures serve to meet our needs, not theirs. We are the ones who want to keep animals, they do not necessarily want to be kept.

 

[Mattsand89]

Once they’re old enough I’d always say go bigger! Most snakes will explore and use every inch of any set up if it’s done right. It’s down to us to give them as much enrichment as possible.

 

[Zincubus]

Once they’re old enough I’d always say go bigger! Most snakes will explore and use every inch of any set up if it’s done right. It’s down to us to give them as much enrichment as possible.

Oddly enough I’ve just today put one of my young Albino Royals into this new enclosure...

Three exo terra hides plus 4 more natural ones that it seems to prefer thus far .. a branch system to the front and the rear ..

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[loxocemus]

I don't think it should be a VS question, it should be a which species does better in which. if you believe that all species or specimens can thrive in one or the other then you haven't kept enough species or specimens.

of course there are many that "thrive" in both, do your research, pick which appeals to you morally, financially (I know a dirty word in the current woke hobby) and what you simply want from the hobby for YOU, not Facebook, not forums, not YouTube, what do YOU want from the hobby.

caveat, if u want the most amount of snakes in the smallest amount of space, your not a keeper, your a hoarder, seek help. believe it or not this is not a repudiation of racks, or professional breeders that supply all your pets, so unbunch ur knickers

if your looking for a Black or White answer, sorry, there isn't one.

rgds
ed