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Have got a 'baby' beardie, he's 6 months old now. He's lived in a 3ft Viv since getting him, and we've always used either wood chippings or latterly reptile carpet on the bottom of his viv.

He's growing fast so we're buying a 4ft viv this weekend, and thinking about using sand as the substrate. Have heard all kinds of horror storeis about impaction, but every reptile shop I go to has sand in the viv so I'm not sure its the big issue some make it out to be.

What is the 'safest' sand to use for a Beardie's viv?
 

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ill give you the same advice i gave another member about leos
make a floor
get some poly sheets
carve and burn it to shape
grout it
sprinle some sand lightly on top and then paint over it with acrylic paint, and use yacht varnish or something to seal it
itll give him a nice surfce to walk on
itll look nice and naturalistic and there no risk of impaction
: victory:
 
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The whole to use sand or not to use sand is a big argument, personally i would avoid it, they do not natural occur on sand (see feet structure and natural habitat) they occur on hard compact rocks with a fine dusting of sand. the risk of impaction from any loose substrate are high but that is always your call, there are loads of threads out there on this with loads of fact, so have a read around. I really wouldn't base your opinion on pet shops.

If you decide to use sand most people use play sand from Argos, which is safe, cheap and easy to get hold of, just dry it first.

However, I would say the safest sand is baked repti-sand, as this is kiln baked and incredibly fine (more likely to pass though when ingested) and has a low silca level so is very safe. However, it's expensive, and play sand is just as good really.

edit: The advice above is good, and represents their natural habitat, personally i would use stone tiles with a sprinkling of loose sand on top.

Jay
 

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Have got a 'baby' beardie, he's 6 months old now. He's lived in a 3ft Viv since getting him, and we've always used either wood chippings or latterly reptile carpet on the bottom of his viv.

He's growing fast so we're buying a 4ft viv this weekend, and thinking about using sand as the substrate. Have heard all kinds of horror storeis about impaction, but every reptile shop I go to has sand in the viv so I'm not sure its the big issue some make it out to be.

What is the 'safest' sand to use for a Beardie's viv?
Risk of impaction from substrate is lower than risk of impaction through eating the wrong size food so the horror stories you are hearing are extremely rare cases indeed. I have always kept mine on sand and never EVER had a problem, or come close. The whole thing started because one person mentioned it and the entire theme spiralled out of control. At 6 months old it would certainly take a huge ammount of sand to cause impaction, which i would doubt the beardy would continue eating after half a mouthful anyway! The lick their surroundings, and sometimes that can look like they are eating substrate but if you look close enough you will see that none is being collected. I buy big bags of coloured sand from my local shop and like ive said, never EVER had a problem.
 

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The whole to use sand or not to use sand is a big argument, personally i would avoid it, they do not natural occur on sand (see feet structure and natural habitat) they occur on hard compact rocks with a fine dusting of sand. the risk of impaction from any loose substrate are high but that is always your call, there are loads of threads out there on this with loads of fact, so have a read around. I really wouldn't base your opinion on pet shops.

If you decide to use sand most people use play sand from Argos, which is safe, cheap and easy to get hold of, just dry it first.

However, I would say the safest sand is baked repti-sand, as this is kiln baked and incredibly fine (more likely to pass though when ingested) and has a low silca level so is very safe. However, it's expensive, and play sand is just as good really.

edit: The advice above is good, and represents their natural habitat, personally i would use stone tiles with a sprinkling of loose sand on top.

Jay
ive had to make a ledge for my cwd to bask on and at first i thought the claws would damage the ledge badly
but with 3 good layers or well mixed grout its solid
and i got my missus beardie to test it out for me to make sure it doesnt damage the ledge =]

thats what gave me the idea of people acctually making a floor for them since its not something you see
 

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ive had to make a ledge for my cwd to bask on and at first i thought the claws would damage the ledge badly
but with 3 good layers or well mixed grout its solid
and i got my missus beardie to test it out for me to make sure it doesnt damage the ledge =]

thats what gave me the idea of people acctually making a floor for them since its not something you see
I did the same when i was building a background for one of my beardy tanks. While it looked great i soon noticed that cleaning out could be a little bit of a struggle. That probably was due to my attention to detail and making the floor as rough as i could so it looked natural. After a month or so i had enough of it and ripped the thing out, but agreed - it does look awesome when done right. I now just stick to backgrounds.
 

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Risk of impaction from substrate is lower than risk of impaction through eating the wrong size food so the horror stories you are hearing are extremely rare cases indeed. I have always kept mine on sand and never EVER had a problem, or come close. The whole thing started because one person mentioned it and the entire theme spiralled out of control. At 6 months old it would certainly take a huge ammount of sand to cause impaction, which i would doubt the beardy would continue eating after half a mouthful anyway! The lick their surroundings, and sometimes that can look like they are eating substrate but if you look close enough you will see that none is being collected. I buy big bags of coloured sand from my local shop and like ive said, never EVER had a problem.
I would say you have that the wrong way round, risk of impactation through substrate is very real. The risk of impaction thourgh wrong sized food? you go that right, in many many years of keeping i have never heard of that before. I have never obied that rule of feeding nor do many large keepers.

I have had at lest 4/5 resuces this year alone suffering from impaction? That's not counting rescues friends have had or ones i've advised people about via phone and email. I've also had many rescues that i have lost though impaction, it is a very prominent risk. You'll be amazing at how little substrate you need to block the intestinal tract and cause impaction.

Jay
 

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I did the same when i was building a background for one of my beardy tanks. While it looked great i soon noticed that cleaning out could be a little bit of a struggle. That probably was due to my attention to detail and making the floor as rough as i could so it looked natural. After a month or so i had enough of it and ripped the thing out, but agreed - it does look awesome when done right. I now just stick to backgrounds.
thats why i always suggest sealing with yacht varnish or g10
even though theres no moisture in the tank you can just pull it out and dip it in the bath with some soapy water :no1:
 

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Pogona live on a wide range of substrates in the wild, inlcuding soil and dead leaves. The sand-impaction debate is vastly over-egged. Play sand is fine, as are bark chips, rocks, even some gravels/cobbles (large).
 

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Pogona live on a wide range of substrates in the wild, inlcuding soil and dead leaves. The sand-impaction debate is vastly over-egged. Play sand is fine, as are bark chips, rocks, even some gravels/cobbles (large).
Agreed, but very few will ever come into contact with deep dune sand, that most keepers what to keep them on.

Jay
 

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I use a mix of sand and clay, after it dryes out it gives a hard surface. I think thats very close to the natural substrate they live on. In this they can also burrow and dig and it will not collapse.
 

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I would say you have that the wrong way round, risk of impactation through substrate is very real. The risk of impaction thourgh wrong sized food? you go that right, in many many years of keeping i have never heard of that before. I have never obied that rule of feeding nor do many large keepers.

I have had at lest 4/5 resuces this year alone suffering from impaction? That's not counting rescues friends have had or ones i've advised people about via phone and email. I've also had many rescues that i have lost though impaction, it is a very prominent risk. You'll be amazing at how little substrate you need to block the intestinal tract and cause impaction.

Jay
The "rule of feeding" is a guildline, and the pair of us should know better than to comment on the same threads due to us both being stuck in our ways. If you have never heard of that then maybe you could do a little digging and find some information on it.

Nobody said it isnt real, yet the risk of it is very very minimal. You already said yourself that reptile sand is so fine, yet you still advise childs play sand from argos? And you are the person trying to show the RISK of impaction higher than it actually is! Little contradicting, don't you think?

thats why i always suggest sealing with yacht varnish or g10
even though theres no moisture in the tank you can just pull it out and dip it in the bath with some soapy water :no1:
That sounds like a more reasonable way of cleaning, y'know the taking out etc. Maybe i should have thought about that before i stuck everything in place! lol
 

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The "rule of feeding" is a guildline, and the pair of us should know better than to comment on the same threads due to us both being stuck in our ways. If you have never heard of that then maybe you could do a little digging and find some information on it.

Nobody said it isnt real, yet the risk of it is very very minimal. You already said yourself that reptile sand is so fine, yet you still advise childs play sand from argos? And you are the person trying to show the RISK of impaction higher than it actually is! Little contradicting, don't you think?



That sounds like a more reasonable way of cleaning, y'know the taking out etc. Maybe i should have thought about that before i stuck everything in place! lol
always think outside the box :2thumb:
 
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The "rule of feeding" is a guildline, and the pair of us should know better than to comment on the same threads due to us both being stuck in our ways. If you have never heard of that then maybe you could do a little digging and find some information on it.
Have we debated before then?? I have heard of the guideline lol, never heard of over sized food causing impaction.

Nobody said it isnt real, yet the risk of it is very very minimal. You already said yourself that reptile sand is so fine, yet you still advise childs play sand from argos? And you are the person trying to show the RISK of impaction higher than it actually is! Little contradicting, don't you think?
I never said that it always happens, just that it can, it's a risk just like anything, the owner has to calculate if that risk is one they want to take.
repti-sand is indeed fine and the best, most places don't actually stock it, closely followed by play sand, i have no issues with recommend play sand, as i would rather they purchased that, which has a far lower impaction risk then other reptile sands such as calci-sand and others. if the owner wants to use sand fine, the two i recommend are repti-sand and play sand.

Driving a car is a risk, crossing the road etc, you just have to work out how much risk you take in life. Impactation is a risk with any loose substrate, its may be a small risk but it is still a risk, i'd probably say about 4-5% of reptiles suffer some form of impaction around of which 1% or less is fatal, from my expereiences.

Though by far the best substrate is actually stone or tiles sprinkled with a loose sand.

There is no contradiction in that statement at all.
 

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Have we debated before then?? I have heard of the guideline lol, never heard of over sized food causing impaction.

I never said that it always happens, just that it can, it's a risk just like anything, the owner has to calculate if that risk is one they want to take.
repti-sand is indeed fine and the best, most places don't actually stock it, closely followed by play sand, i have no issues with recommend play sand, as i would rather they purchased that, which has a far lower impaction risk then other reptile sands such as calci-sand and others. if the owner wants to use sand fine, the two i recommend are repti-sand and play sand.

Driving a car is a risk, crossing the road etc, you just have to work out how much risk you take in life. Impactation is a risk with any loose substrate, its may be a small risk but it is still a risk, i'd probably say about 4-5% of reptiles suffer some form of impaction around of which 1% or less is fatal, from my expereiences.

Though by far the best substrate is actually stone or tiles sprinkled with a loose sand.

There is no contradiction in that statement at all.
Several times yes haha, although i do remember the last time we talked it was to do with some Anoles and the scientific study Dixon posted that Anoles are far more intelligent than most give them credit for. I usually avoid calcium sand because of the calcium (intake can't be monitored), as opposed to the risk of impaction. I think you may be pretty spot on with those %'s you gave. Maybe even less than that. End user's will always be the one's that the decision has to come from, although we are indeed all here to pass on any experience / knowledge we may have to those who request it. The problem we are all faced with is you hear ONE story, and it gets shared around with different variations, making the overall risk look much greater than it actually is. Risk of impaction is so so minute that, i even keep 6 week old hatchlings on sand. Anyways i am off out, catch y'all later.
 

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Several times yes haha, although i do remember the last time we talked it was to do with some Anoles and the scientific study Dixon posted that Anoles are far more intelligent than most give them credit for. I usually avoid calcium sand because of the calcium (intake can't be monitored), as opposed to the risk of impaction. I think you may be pretty spot on with those %'s you gave. Maybe even less than that. End user's will always be the one's that the decision has to come from, although we are indeed all here to pass on any experience / knowledge we may have to those who request it. The problem we are all faced with is you hear ONE story, and it gets shared around with different variations, making the overall risk look much greater than it actually is. Risk of impaction is so so minute that, i even keep 6 week old hatchlings on sand. Anyways i am off out, catch y'all later.
hmm, i debate lots lol so don't take it personally lol, i do things different all the time. I remember the anole one, i do think reptiles are generally more intelligent then we give them credit for the anole thread was an interesting one.

So we are debating the same point lol? thats got to be a new on lol. I do agree though that people do seem to think it always happens, when in reality it's just a risk factor, 95% of the time you can get away with most things. But personally i think 5% is actually quite high IMO.

Anyway we have taken it off topic although with useful information.

Jay
 

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And so they debate, I use a layer of smooth flat riverstones using play sand to fill in the gaps and then a layer 2" or so of cannabis substrate , after a couple of weeks it all settles in and looks very natural with stones etc.
 
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