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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

This is a friendly debate SO KEEP IT CIVEL!!!!!!



I'm just interested to see what people’s opinions are on rack systems. I'm referring the type used by BHB Reptiles and other large scale snake breeders.



This is my opinion first and then see what others think.



My opinion is for a couple of species they are a good idea. Species like sand boas. They are small and relatively inactive spending most of the time hidden under substrate. Mines in a 45cm cube viv and never see it and never see signs of it being on the surface ie tracks.

So for snakes like that that naturally don't do a lot they are great.



However for most snakes no. From ball pythons, king snakes, corn snakes and Burmese pythons they inn my opinion is not right.

The argument I seem to find time and time again is "there snakes. They don't do anything so don't need a lot of space."

I have got a corn snake with a sand soil leaf litter substrate and multiple hides and branches to go on. It’s out nearly all the time. Climbing, tunnelling or just sitting on top of the slat rather than in a hide. It does go to its hide's but most of the time it’s out exploring.

Other people I know have ball pythons in more natural setups then just newspaper and have branches ect. They are out a lot of the time climbing and exploring.

I think that if given the chance most snakes will be active which surly would make them more appealing?

The thing is with snakes in a box on newspaper with a water bowl they can't do these things so obviously not going to move a lot.

I really don't like seeing the large snakes in racks too small for them to move. Like the ones at BHB. In the vids (Which I do find interesting and am a subscriber) when he shows the large snakes they are coiled up practically if not touching both sides of the box.

In my opinion the min size of a viv for a snake should be that if the snake was to lay length wise along it's viv then it's tail ends on the side.

To make it clearer as that’s probably a bit confusing as I’m not sure how to word it. If you had a 7 foot snake then a 5 foot long viv and two foot wide viv would be ok in my opinion. But that’s floor space.



So that’s my opinion what’s yours?
And happy boxing day : victory:
 

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Nothing wrong with racking systems in principle. The issue is whether the tub space provided is suitable for the occupant. A snake in a rack tub that is too small or of an unsuitable shape/design is just as bad as a snake in a vivarium that is too small or poorly designed.
 

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Nothing wrong with racking I have just had 40 tub of 15lite and 50 tub 32lire made plus hatchling rack for my hognose and milks but they to small yet to use so I have 4 young boas in there for now.
 

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I've got five of my six in a rack. I like it and for Piper her tub has a larger floor space than her viv did anyway. She isn't a climber so I don't feel she needs the height whereas Dixie is still in a viv as she is always sitting on top of her 'tree'. : victory:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Agree with essexchondor.

like the idea. problem is every single snake I have seen in a rack are cramped into tiny boxes with nothing but a water bowl and some newspaper/or aspen. And sometimes they are so low the snake can't even lift its head properly. As you say its just as bad as being cramped into a small unsuitable viv. But I have found that snakes in vivs people try to make look a bit nicer as you can see straight into it so the usually have at least 1 or 2 hides. to me not ideal but better then every rack I have seen.
And they seem to get more room too if in a viv as again people can see straight into it and see the animal is too big. but with racks I get the impression that as people can always see through it just seeing it when doing the daily check and water change and weekly or so feed they almost get forgotten in the sense they cant really see how cramped it is.
Not saying they don't keep temp, humidity ect correct but as they can't see the animal unless they open the rack they don't seem to see how cramped it is when resting.
That what it seems to me and am not attacking anyone or anything but the ones I see in both life and on the internet seem to be cramped into the back of the rack with out the space to roam much if they wish.
 
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Have always been a little unsure with racks, also enjoying watching the Snakebytes videos but have to agree with the fact they do not look like "enjoyable" living environments. They seem happy, Healthy and looked after but I guess it is the divide between pet and buisness
 

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I've got five of my six in a rack. I like it and for Piper her tub has a larger floor space than her viv did anyway. She isn't a climber so I don't feel she needs the height whereas Dixie is still in a viv as she is always sitting on top of her 'tree'. : victory:
Because she has one to climb?
 
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Most snakes tht are I racks aren't in them for that long anyway as they are sold, it's purely space saving, the floors spac is often the same as a viv so it doesn't make much difference in that aspect, although all my snakes are in Vivariums, if I decided to breed they would go into racks, I believe it's different depending on if you keep your snakes as pets or just breed them.
 
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Sorry for any bad spelling etc I'm on my iPhone
 
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Because she has one to climb?
True but when Piper had one she never climbed it so I don't feel the need to give her loads of height when she probably won't use it anyway. Ideally they'd all be in massive beautifully decorated vivs but I haven't got room.

My tubs are done with repticard, hides, fake plants etc and I would challenge anyone to find an issue with the health and wellbeing of my animals. Their attitude problem isn't easily cured though. :lol2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
When put in just to breed and put back in a viv later then all for it. Thing is I see people on the internet that not only breed them in racks but are kept full time in racks.

Rack systems them self’s are good it just the people I see use them keep them barren and small which is where I personally have a problem. I also personally not a fan when snakes are kept in barren vivs too.

I really don't like leos being kept in racks too. I mean at least they have I hide but just don't like the idea of an animal being kept in a tiny empty box.

If more people only used them for breeding or would use bigger ones and have it a bit more natural then I would have no problem with them at all.

I might get a rack system with decent size boxes if I breed sand boas which is something I'm considering.

The other argument I sometimes hear is they don't know any difference. To me that is not an reason at all. My sand boa all her life was kept in a 9L rub with a water dish and kitchen towelling. Kept healthy but couldn't tunnel. I gave her substrate and she instantly knew what to do and she tunnelled into the sand.
Interesting to read so far keep them coming people :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
True but when Piper had one she never climbed it so I don't feel the need to give her loads of height when she probably won't use it anyway. Ideally they'd all be in massive beautifully decorated vivs but I haven't got room.

My tubs are done with repticard, hides, fake plants etc and I would challenge anyone to find an issue with the health and wellbeing of my animals. Their attitude problem isn't easily cured though. :lol2:

Setups like that I like. :2thumb: Its not keeping them in racks or tubs or anything I don't like. Its just most people I have seen (in person and internet) Keep them in a small box, a water dish and some newspaper. Often they don't even have at least 1 hide. Thats the thing I don't like. I feel the same with snakes in vivs like that to. Its just if kept in a viv that is less likely to happen.
 

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When put in just to breed and put back in a viv later then all for it. Thing is I see people on the internet that not only breed them in racks but are kept full time in racks.

Rack systems them self’s are good it just the people I see use them keep them barren and small which is where I personally have a problem. I also personally not a fan when snakes are kept in barren vivs too.

I really don't like leos being kept in racks too. I mean at least they have I hide but just don't like the idea of an animal being kept in a tiny empty box.

If more people only used them for breeding or would use bigger ones and have it a bit more natural then I would have no problem with them at all.

I might get a rack system with decent size boxes if I breed sand boas which is something I'm considering.

The other argument I sometimes hear is they don't know any difference. To me that is not an reason at all. My sand boa all her life was kept in a 9L rub with a water dish and kitchen towelling. Kept healthy but couldn't tunnel. I gave her substrate and she instantly knew what to do and she tunnelled into the sand.
Interesting to read so far keep them coming people :D
Mine are in a rack permanently. I don't see an issue with it. They're not big snakes and they have a lot of space. This is what my tubs are like:


They have warm and cold hides etc. Granted the water bowls are coffee jar lids but hey ho. They'll get bigger as the snakes grow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Mine are in a rack permanently. I don't see an issue with it. They're not big snakes and they have a lot of space. This is what my tubs are like:
[URL="http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s659/Robbo8916/Savstub_zpsae6d9835.jpg"]image[/URL]

They have warm and cold hides etc. Granted the water bowls are coffee jar lids but hey ho. They'll get bigger as the snakes grow.

Looks really nice: victory:
What I was saying in my last comment is my problem isn't with the racks them selfs I have a problem as often people keep them in small tubs/boxes with no hide just newspaper, a water dish. Thats where my problem is. Like if you look at some of brians retics. Condition wise they are really healthy and probably the best but they can't move a lot. I'll try to get a pic of what I'm talking about
Yours look really good :D and I bet your snakes love them :no1: If more people kept their rack snakes like that then wouldn't mind it at all. As it wouldn't be much different then a viv
 

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I keep royals and hognoses in a rack, not really suitable for the retic lol
The hognoses seem to be doing fine in it as I use lots of substrate for them to burrow till their little hearts are content lol.
As for my pet rocks (royals) I never see them, they just spend all of their time in the hides (as royals do lol) but I also agree that there is a point where my females get so big that it isn't fair to keep Ina RUB so they will end up in vivs.
Racking systems are great provided you use them sensibly and not cram a 3kg royal ect in a 33ltr rub and think it will be fine.
So I'm all for them providing you act responsibly :2thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i'm all for them if done properly.

Thing is this is often how I see them being kept in racks. This is from retics, balls, kings, milks, hognose, boas and everything in-between. Its often a small box with some newspaper and a water dish.

If done for breeding I would still personally give them a hide but overall if done for breeding and then put in a viv i'm happy. Or if kept permanently but like how Chance keeps his I'm also all for them. But like this full time I'm not happy personally.


NOT MINE! THIS IS A RETIC AT BHB FROM THE EPISODE HUGE SNAKES
 

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There is no doubt whatsoever that racking systems are ideal for commercial breeders
Also no doubt that keeping those racks as sterile as possible is the easiest way to avoid problems for those breeders
Commercial breeders are farmers
Successful farmers fit the maximum amount of produce into the smallest amount of space for the shortest period of time to maximise profits

For hobbyists I do not agree with bare minimums in either vivs or rubs or racks
 

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rubs and racking are all good in principle as long as the animals needs are met. the issue I have is with the sterile environment.my rubs are like a slice of jungle along with all my vivs and as such I feel that helps eradicate/ lessen issues such as royals not eating
 
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I personally think its just selfish. I think its done as its a cheaper option which saves space and time. No consideration for the animal. Its no life, being stuck in a box without any enrichment.its like putting a perfectly sane person in a padded room. They'll survive but go absolutley nuts. What sort of life is that for any living creature? There's no wonder so many people are against reptile keeping when they see these videos and pics.
 

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I think it depends on the snake, a smaller snake in a rack system, with at least 3 sides covered is considered one big hide for a snake, with both warm and cool side, pretty much ideal for them, if a snake lived under a log in the wild that had a little puddle of water and rodents came by once a week, chances are it would never leave that log. Big snakes however is a bit touchy, i personally prefer vivs for them, much like Jay Brewer of Prehistoric pets has his. But in reference to Brian's big snake, namely Satan, she was put in one of his larger cages (which looked a better size for her) and she just flipped out, did not like it at all, so like i say, depends on the snake in my opinion, but they all look very healthy, his albino burm sunshine is in one of those drawers and he takes her to be handled by kids because of her calm nature.

Summary of opinion:
Racks are good as long as snake is happy, healthy and got out for a good stretch regularly.
 
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