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You've heard about the European invasive species issue. If the government could be compelled to start drawing up black and white lists of reptiles we are are allowed to keep and aren't allowed to keep. They will be forced to implement it and defra will be directly involved, and it will cost more than a simple licensing scheme. So you're right, it might not be sooner but something will eventually happen to regulate reptile keeping, whether it's European law or the hobby itself attempting to protect its freedom to keep all species with a simple licensing scheme.:2thumb:
I promise you it won't, at least not in a way remotely similar to what you are suggesting ;)

You may quote me on this at any time in the future, I absolutely guarantee you this (testing and licencing of keepers) is not the way forward.
 
We have the highest child abuse rates in the developed world, yet we are still not equipped to provide effective child protection in the UK. We are slated for this, and yet as cuts come down hard we are losing child protection services.

Universal Credit has already cost billions of taxpayers pounds, yet the very day the system went live it was pulled, it doesn't work. It needs either billions more, or losses being cut and scrapping.

The government will soon have to answer to the UN with regards bedroom tax, as they are investigating the link between the bedroom tax and death. People are committing suicide over this and the papers have been gagged.

Royal mail has just lost it's contract to provide default mail services in the UK. Those of you who thought it had avoided privatisation so far, you are wrong, it has been private for number of years now!

DEFRA cannot cope with the running of the IoED. Previously, when it was contracted out privately, it failed, she lost money. Now DEFRA have increased all fees yet they still admit they cannot cope. Running the licence scheme is a drain on their resources and the people at the top admit BSL does not work and is a waste of money.

Utility companies and insurance companies are still ripping people off. This needs urgent regulation overhaul.

There is also a good chance, that in a few years we will not be answering to European instruction anyway. The above is a snippet of what the government is currently trying to manage. Reptile keeping does not feature, I have this on an e-mail conversation from an MP.

I could go on and on and on, but I can't be arsed : victory:
 
Uromastyxman, I feel you may be looking at this from the wrong angle. Of course, we are all passionate keepers, who want the best for the hobby, the individuals and the animals, but i feel individual licensing of keepers is complex, unworkable and undesired by government.

It would be very expensive and convoluted to organise, test and follow up. Ensure care requirements are being maintained would be a massive undertaking to go round all keepers homes and ensure they are toeing the line.

A much easier and simpler solution, would be to hit the source. Further, more restrictive licensing for pet shops, ensuring they have the knowledge and will to impart correct advice (or at least show where correct advice can be found) before a license to sell reptiles is given, would be a much simpler idea. The shops will be open for spot inspections and testing to ensure they havent slipped away from the proper route.

On top of this, we can do what is already being implemented. Self regulation. The FBH have (in the original thread from which this split) offered advice and guidance on the sale and purchase of large snakes, which pets can/will offer to customers to ensure they are fully prepared for their purchase.
This is just a start, and can be stretched out a to a more generalised set of guidelines which store owners (armed with their previous knowledge) can expand upon dependant upon the sale.

I would like to see (and believe it may already be in Chris's mind) a scheme similar to that offered by OATA, with courses run for store owners and employees to keep them up to date on the latest ideas etc.

The harder area to hit is private sales, but wheels are turning for the likes of preloved, gumtree, etc and people with facebook groups should be encouraged to follow these guidelines too, to ensure proper sales and the safety of animals.

It is a sad fact of like that some 'bad uns' will slip through and get away with neglect and abuse, and they should be found out by the hobby and dealt with by the authorities, but the good majority should not be forced through unnessecary legislation because of it.
 
Who is right? Who is wrong? Who is going to decide where the rules lay? And who is going to go through the thousands of species available now and in the future, to decide on the correct care requirements.
I think you've hit a key point here Tarron, the answer would be you can't run a license system for every species, so what you do is liit the number of species that are available in order to fit the system, bingo, in one fell swoop you have near achieved what the antis/RSPCA want by strictly limiting what can be kept, keep reducing the species listing to allow enforcement of the license & eventually you remove the hobby
 
Good question, it has 2 main benefits.

The first is that any newcomers To the hobby who wants to purchase a reptile to keep would have to do the test to qualify for the licence. This test would deal with the basics of reptile husbandry such as setting up a viv and understanding simple reptile behaviour such as shedding skin and requiring a thermal gradient as they cannot generate there own heat.

This means that you would not have novices turning up at reptile expos trying to by a reptile when they have to ask at the same time what a thermostat is for. I witnessed this recently several times and it should simply not be happening. if someone is genuinely passionate about keeping reptiles a simple test to gain the licence and register should not put them off. If it does, good!

The second benefit is that all keepers would be registered and if they were found to be abusing or neglecting their animals ( this would need to be assessed by reptile savvy people, not generalists) then they could have their licence taken away.

The benefits to this are that anyone who keeps reptiles would have to be mindfull that they have a duty to their reptiles and that they could have their licence removed and the privilege of keeping reptiles would be gone. This can only be a good thing if it makes people think more. And while some idiots will always be around, it means that people will have to be more educated at entry level and more aware of their responsibility to their reptiles thereafter.

Everyone I speak to about this thinks it's good, however, breeders, dealers and businesses do not want it because they will not be able to sell to a person unless they can show their licence, and this means that they will simply have less people to sell to. I am not a dealer or a business, so I don't care. I'm just trying to protect reptiles. While the benefits of licensing are obvious, the influence of dealers and businesses within the hobby is extremely powerful, and they resist it by making puny excuses about it being complicated to organise and confusing the issue by attaching the idea of reptile licensing to al domestic pets. I just Want to keep it simple and licence reptiles, as I think their more complex husbandry needs warrants its own licensing system:2thumb:


That's simply not true.

We've had discussions on this very forum where may members, myself included think that a license system solves nothing, causes more issues for legitimate keepers ad would be impossible to enforce (no 'experts' to do it, no money to do it).

You have this idea that a licence would be some kind of magic wand that would solve issues. It simply wouldn't. (and I'm none of the people you've claimed are making 'puny excuses' for commercial reasons).
 
Uromastyxman, I feel you may be looking at this from the wrong angle. Of course, we are all passionate keepers, who want the best for the hobby, the individuals and the animals, but i feel individual licensing of keepers is complex, unworkable and undesired by government.

It would be very expensive and convoluted to organise, test and follow up. Ensure care requirements are being maintained would be a massive undertaking to go round all keepers homes and ensure they are toeing the line.


It is a sad fact of like that some 'bad uns' will slip through and get away with neglect and abuse, and they should be found out by the hobby and dealt with by the authorities, but the good majority should not be forced through unnessecary legislation because of it.
That's simply not true.

We've had discussions on this very forum where may members, myself included think that a license system solves nothing, causes more issues for legitimate keepers ad would be impossible to enforce (no 'experts' to do it, no money to do it).

You have this idea that a licence would be some kind of magic wand that would solve issues. It simply wouldn't. (and I'm none of the people you've claimed are making 'puny excuses' for commercial reasons).
I was instructed last month that I (alongside my team of Social Workers and Community Nurses) need to cut ÂŁ2M off just one area of social care delivery in just my local authority within the next year.... do you honestly think that government is going to really consider licencing when it made such an abysmal job with the dog licencing agenda?
 
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I was instructed last month that I (alongside my team of Social Workers and Community Nurses) need to cut ÂŁ2M off just one area of social care delivery in just my local authority within the next year.... do you honestly think that government is going to really consider licencing when it made such an abysmal job with the dog licencing agenda?
Are you a care co-ordinator Janine?
 
Not directly no, I commission and contract services for people with learning disabilities, but I work directly with them and their Head of Service in the Community Learning Disabilities Team.... I help them, (the micro commissioners) understand their role in supporting the macro commissioning and vice versa.... works well for us....:2thumb:

And now that is really off topic!!! sorry folks :whistling2:
 
It's not off topic at all Janine, it's very on topic! It's exactly why the government not only can't afford to implement licencing, but why it also isn't even close to being on the agenda...
 
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